Just finished this form this morning for a short recurve and I had to post it. I got some cabinet grade plywood scraps from a friend and glued 3 deep. The top of the form has a .100 lam of hickory, the whole thing sealed and the top waxed. I put two clamp holes in the bottom to attach it while gluing up, lam keepers at the crown and I also added some pegs to help taping the lams down prior to attaching the top...I think its the best form I have ever made. It had a huge riser for a high grip on such a short bow. The riser is also lopsided (the bottom limb will be on the right in that pic). But its back to work tomorrow so might not get time to work on this one in a while.
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Bowerpics002.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/Bowerpics001.jpg)
That is a mean lookin dude!!
Back to the real job tomorrow for me too!
that thing looks mean... what are the specs going to be??
Well, I glued one up today on it...but I dont think I will get to finish it in a while. It should measure 46" ntn unbraced. I used .040 ULS brown glass and 2 .050 lams, zero taper for a total lam stack of .180. I took some notes on some shorter bows I have seen like it and notices they have little to no taper. I am shooting for somewhere around 50-55#. The riser I used was green mountain camo S/A.
I would like to hear any thoughts on taper theory for shorter recurves...or recurves in general. All of the bingham recurves I built had a total taper of .002. I think all of the Bear recurves I have seen (58" Grizzly, 52" Kodiak, Black Bear) also had a taper rate of .002 from what I could tell. But then some of the shorter recurves I saw appeared to have zero taper.
I know nothing about building a bow like this, but plan to after this threads conclusion! :)
my 48" R/D (1.5" wide) form came out at 15#@24 with that stack.
Russell,...how long was your riser? and how much recurve did you have...what is your best guess on what this one will come out to after seeing the form.
I might be able to get the bow out of the oven tonight and see.
Well i borrowed basically the same bow you are building from a friend b/c i wanted to build one for myself. You are right as far as the taper. The bow i have is all parallels. Its a 48" bow rather than a 50" though. I took some measurements off mine to give both of us a comparison when yours is done. The one i borrowed is 48" and is 27#@28". This bow has a 20" riser and comes out at .178 stack at the fadeouts.
I'm guessing you will probably be a little light but the other 58" recurves i have checked were about .240 or .250 for a 50# bow. When i lay mine up i was going to use a .195 stack. It will be intresting to see for sure. maybe these numbers will help you some.
Adam
Adam, Thanks alot. That is some excellent data. What kind of bow did you borrow...was it a bear supermag...or some other production bow or one that your buddy made?
Well you guys had me nervous on the weight...so I had to work on it tonight. I have some progress to post...but i have a smile on my face.
Here is a pic of it out of the form....quite a bit of excess on the ends.
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0878.jpg)
Here I am using the laser jig to get centerline..the laser line is quite precise..but my scribing the line is not.
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0881.jpg)
Here is the initial form template that I made with the specs I drew out. Perfect fit. I drew the entire bow out on a sheet of cardboard first, including the riser ends and the string knocks and I transferred all of that to this pine board. I cut the and sanded the board and then used the router to make the jig similar to how Kenny describes on his website. I initially came up with a lam stack of .172 to create a 47# bow. This was based on looking at a bear supermag, a short browning cobra and a 52" kodiak this past fall...some figuring that looked precise but was more of just a guess...of course then I rounded up to .180 to get the poundange up a bit...also a bit unprecise but you have to start somewhere.
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0879.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0880.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0882.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0883.jpg)
To the bandsaw, then the edge sander to smooth it out and here is the blank
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0885.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0884.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0887.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0890.jpg)
Im not getting too far back yet in that pic...but it was feeling pretty good.
I put it on the scale...it is currently 58# at 28". I think after I finish the limbs and sand it will be in the 51-55 range easy dont you think
I think the pic shows it is a bit bendy at the fades..but look how the tips rolled out. To finish the limbs I will have to taper them a bit more, so I am guessing that will help.
VERY nice!!! Looking at your drawing pic that bow will feel nice on the fingers at 28" of draw!!! Very little string angle at your partial draw.
I use tapers on my 48" t/d bow with excellant results. It lets the tips unwind just a tad but still keeps the angle down for a full 28" draw. I compared two bows one with tapers and the other without and did have a touch of speed increase with the tapers, plus the bow felt a tad smoother - but this was all feel.
I can't wait to see how this one comes out!!!! very nice so far!!!
thats gonna be a cool little bow!!!cant wait to see it finished.i would love to have one like that for treestand hunting.bdawg
nice!!
almost looks like a riser with recurves :p
love your recurves brad!
my 48" form is a r/d with 13 degrees of deflex and very slight net deflex. sorry it was 15#@20" riser is 14" with 10" 0.010 full tapper power lams. i think its about 27# at 24. it is a different monster, i wouldnt try to draw it to 28" i am very interested in that form, did you lay it out on a computer?? or can you post layout specs (points of infection angles and distances), or maybe a Super tiller plot? i would love to have a 50" bow that could be shot reasonably at 28"
Very cool!
Russell, I did not lay it out on a computer, I gathered some ideas and some recurves that I had and then drew it out on cardboard. How about I take the profile, draw it out on 8.5" x 11" sheets of paper, scan it and send it to you. Then you can just print them out, tape them together and you will have a full scale profile.
i would really appreciate that. i pm'ed you my email address.
That's looking good.I think your right on the tips,narrow them down and get a little more bend there.It might be interesting to leave an 1" to 1 1/2" more on the tips and move your string nocks up accordingly.It would make the bow 2" longer and give you more tip to open and add to the smoothness,just a thought. Bill
I agree that would be a nice experiment Bill. I was also thinking in addition to adding the 1" on both sides like you said, adding .001 of taper to the stack,. A combination of both I would expect to give a smoother draw and longer draw. Most recurves I have seen over 50" start to add taper to the stack.
Hi bjansen,
I'm impressed. This is the perfect bow for hunting. On the picture where you draw it just looks awesome.
I'm also thinking about building a short recurve for hunting. I have already drawn some ideas but I'd like to compare with your bow. I would really appreciate if you could send me the profile of your bow.
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Andy
Sure, no problem. I sent it to your email address. Thanks
Thanks a lot Brad.
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Andy
great job...now I need to make a 2 piece form for making short d/r longbows... :)
thanks for sharing.
Bob
Ok I made some progress on it this week. I glued on tip overlays, overlays on the front and back..... and tonight I started to shape the handle. I took alot of pics on the shaping process to show how I did it. I am open to any feedback you guys have on how to do this better or different. When I did my first recurve handle I studied pictures of all of your builds and bows over and over to try to figure out how you got a block of wood into a nice handle. So maybe these pics may give someone else some ideas on how to start.
Here I have all of the overlays glued on (brazilian kingswood, white and brown glass). I sanded the overlays smooth and covered them with a thin coat of superglue. I like to do this after I am finished rough sanding because it seals the thin stuff up and also adds a bit of protections from dings and such while I finish the rest.
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0892.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0893.jpg)
Next I took my template and made some rough marks.
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0894.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0895.jpg)
Then to the bandsaw to cut the shelf. This was cut a bit past center.
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0896.jpg)
Now I took a handsaw and cut some off the front and back as a start on the shelf radius.
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0898.jpg)
Then I take the round file and smooth the joint. This determines the depth of the shelf in the riser. After that, I take a rough file and join the rounded groove with the rest.
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0899.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0900.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0901.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0904.jpg)
Now for the shaping, cut a bit of excess off on the bandsaw first
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0905.jpg)
Then to the osc. spindle sander
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0906.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0907.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0908.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0909.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0910.jpg)
Now I glued on a thumbrest....
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0912.jpg)
Feel where it should go
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0913.jpg)
and sand it to where it needs to be
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0914.jpg)
I will draw out the general shapes that I want then take it to the sander to shape it whilre constantly re-gripping to make sure it feels right.
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0916.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0917.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0919.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0920.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0921.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0922.jpg)
This is where it stands as of now. Next I need to get the limbs ready to go. I cant wait to shoot the first arrow on this one to see how it is.
I do think the riser is too fat..it looks a bit too funny up top I think. I am gong back and forth on if I should take an arch out of the back of the riser above the grip...but I am hesitant to do so. I think I may just leave it as is and round it more during the final sanding.
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0924.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0926.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0927.jpg)
looking good :thumbsup:
looking good! The more I watch the more I know I need to make me a 2 pc r/d longbow form...and now I need an oscillating spindle sander... LOL.
Bob
I love the thumb rest i think i am going to use that idea on my next one!
Looks great. I'd just suggest changing one thing. You raduised the rest but you should also raduise the sight window. You could also raduise the shelf a bit more. I like it when the belly side on the shelf doesn't have glass on it anymore and the back is 1/4in above my hand. This gives the best arrow clearance. The belly side could be raduised so that the belly side of the shelf ends halfway between the grip and belly of the bow. If you decide to raduise the sight window too it will make the bow less critical of the correct spine weight. If you're not sure what I'm talking about pm me your e-mail and I'll send you some pictures. My computer doesn't like photobucket so I can't post the pictures here.
That's looking good. What is in the thumb rest?
Thanks
><>
Chief
Jesse I sent you and email. I appreciate the input.
Igor the thumb rest is just a few scraps of that white glass and Brazilian kingswood.
I sanded more, worked on the tips and the limbs and shot it. It shoots quite well, but I still need to do some tillering. It is too heavy for me that is for sure...It is still 57 or 58 # @ 28. I need to drop about 4 pounds and was thinking of thinning the limbs a bit. Here is the tiller as is.
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0941.jpg)
You could also sand a few thousands off the belly glass to reduce weight and tweak the tiller.I think a little material off the belly side sight window and shelf would look good.Similar to the 1 piece Widow recurve. Bill
very cool!
I took your guys advice and did a bit more work on the shelf and strike plate. I put more of a radius on the shelf, lowered it just a tad and then put a bit more of a radis on the strike plate. I am probably going to do a little more work on the strike plate before it is all over with.
I also took an arc out of the back. I was hesitant to do so because it would take most of the overlays off and expose the back of the coreflex S/A...which doesnt look that great from behinds. But I decided I could try to glue on some other overlays and it worked out pretty well. The picture from the back makes it look a bit offcenter but it is not.
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0945.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0946.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0947.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0948.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0950.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0951.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0953.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0954.jpg)
looks amazing. i might try to whip one up here is a few months. I have two 0.030 glass 48" long laying around from the 48" R/D seems like this design would benefit from the thin glass.
good looking stuff, Brad.
Nice job Brad,you make it all look easy!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Brad, nice job on the tiller and working the riser to a shape you like. Adding radius to the shelf and strike area was a good idea. You can also radius the shelf outside edge to allow better feather clearance. It looks like you could adjust your original riser cut shape on future bows to reflect the final shape you've come up with. Sweet short bow.
That's Nice!Did you get the weight where you want it?
Thank you. I havent worked on the weight yet Bill. Hopefully I will get a few hours in this week at night and try to work it down. I plan to taper the tips a bit first, then if necessary sand the back to get where it is comfortable to shoot.
Great lookin bow Brad and as usual some great info in this build. :thumbsup:
Brad my friend once again you have outdone yourself. Bravo Zulu for a job well done.
Shawn
Great looking bow , love the riser work
A few more updates. I did the tips taking some good advice from a friend on a new way to do them. I also trimmed the weight back to 55#. At an 8" brace ht. it is rather quiet and I think it shoots very good..I am very happy with it. I put the first spray coat on and it is hanging tonight.
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0963.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0964.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0970.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0971.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN0972.jpg)
Wow! Nice recurve. I see why you are passionate about making them.
Nice package packed up and I assume the Bear hanging is that old ratty bow I sent you.
Great job.
Thats right Frank...That package is going to you and thats your old bear!
very cool brad!! Your my hero!! can we see the final tiller?
Ha.ha....Yes indeed...but i spoke too soon...After that first coat of finish I had to sand out some flaws and no im back to reducing more weight...its going to take another week now I suppose.
Very Nice work !!
Hey Brad, I love those tips!!!!!! Any chance of doing a demo on those? :pray:
I have some finished pics if anyone is interested. I went from thinking I was going to do a high gloss finish, to flat. I have about 3 light coats of TB gloss, then 2 light frost coats of TB flat. I like the flat finish look...the first time I've tried it.
Strung, full draw and some test data will come this weekend...I need to let the finish cure just a bit more before messing with it.
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/DSCN1005.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/DSCN1006.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/DSCN1007.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/DSCN1012.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/DSCN1004.jpg)
beautiful bow brad, great work! noel
Wow, now I see what we do in the COLD winter time. Stay indoors and build bows! I am jelous! I realy like the finishing touches you added! The personal grip, the overlays on the riser and tips, the thumb rest. Man that bow has some MOJO!
Good luck in 2010!
Finished!
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN1016.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN1020.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN1015.jpg)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/bjjanse/50%20recurve/DSCN1017.jpg)
Sweet!!
Very nicely done sir.
COOL!!!
Ok a little testing today, at 9 grains per pound the bow shoots an average of 186fps (w/ fingers) at 28". That is with FF string and fur silencers. This bow is loud without the siilencers, but not too bad with them on. Its a fun one to shoot.
That sounds good with silencers and fingers,that is probably 7-8 fps less than machine w/release and no silencers.
Heck,come over and we will run it thru the machine here!!
If you add 10-15 for 2in of draw, 5 for release, and 1-3 for silencers that bow shoots around 202-209 probably 205 AMO. That's only 7 fps slower than a black swan and 5fps slower than an acs. Glad the bow turned out well.
Awesome bow. Thanks for posting the info.
Beautiful work. Great Job
SAWEEEEET !!! The shape of the riser and the grip is just amazing ! I love it.
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Andy
Outstanding!
Really like the full draw profile!
Thanks for sharing
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Glenn
excellent as always. thats one sweet little bow!
Thank you all. I appreciate it.
Beautiful. Thanks for sharing.
sweet looking little bow. i like the finish you put on it. tb is that thunderbird?
Man, you build some beautiful bows! Fantastic work. I'm jealous! That's made a great blind bow.
That is a sweet little bow hope it works great for you,job well done
Thanks! Yes Eman it is Thunderbird, flat.
But I first put a few coats of TB gloss on before the final 2 frosty coats of flat.
Beautiful.
It reminds me of the old RW Hunters and the old short Bears.
looks great B. You lam builders are definitly artisans, i couldnt even begin to know what i was doing with that stuff.lol