I know a guy who has some big osage orange trees over 400 years old that he wants to get rid of :p . He says that the woods so tough it would ruin his chainsaw blade. Do you think thats true? Has anyone ever tried taking one down with an axe or a handsaw. Also, how long does it take for staves to dry and could you possibly leave it in a recurved position and have it dry that way?
How could he know how old they are if he can't cut them down for ruining his saw?
Depends on when its cut, if its split into staves, bark left on or taken off. Do a search for osage and there will be lots of info. I posted recently on drying issues.
I've seen sparks fly from a chainsaw while cutting osage! There were no nails or wire in the tree either.
Guess you better take an extra chain and some files. LOL
I've been looking at some osage and plan on cutting some this winter.
Guess I better get an extra chain and some files myself.
has anyone ever cut down osage with just hand tools like axe or handsaw
400 years old ??? i aint buyin it maybe 100 and ya iv seen osage will eat a saw up and some cuts like butter key is go prepared brock
A smaller more manageable size is preferable. You can cut osage trees with an ax or a hand saw but I wouldn't want to try that with a big old tree. It would take you forever. Try to find a tree(s) that is 2" to 8" in diameter.
we have the stuff growing all over the property. Use it for bows, use it for fence posts and use it for the fire....
Chainsaw is the best way to deal with it - but..... If your cutting anything over about 12 inches - you best have a STOUT chainsaw.... Even small (6 to 8 inch) trees will kill a small saw....
We cut a 8" tree not long ago with a chainsaw, it took awhile. The log was about 8 foot long and took two guys everything we had to pick it up and dump it into the hole to make a corner brace on a new fence line.... Stuff is heavy, dense and stout....
Hand sawing or axe - heheheheheh.... I have done it... went thru a axe handle and had to resharpen the axe 3 times. Took about an hour to cut a 7" round log.
altho, some is easy, most is tough as nails.
I hate to sound unpleasant, but I'm calling bull**** on a couple of things here. First of all, there ain't 100 trees in this country over 200 year old, much less 400. WRT to cutting osage, I'd rather cut osage than post oak. I've cut trees, both live and dead, 14" on the butt end with a $99 el cheapo 16" Poulan chainsaw. You need a sharp chain, need to get any dirt off the tree/log, and let the saw work rather than force it. Again, I'd rather cut osage than lots of other stuff. And I've seen sparks fly off a chain too, from seasoned post oak but if you run into a knot or mineral deposit it could happen in all manner of species I'd imagine.
Same thing about splitting osage. I'd sooner split osage than elm, that's for sure. Here wife is splitting one about 12" on the butt end... with a 14" hammer.
(http://home.comcast.net/~dcm4/pwpimages/wc5.JPG)
I cut my first osage tree with a bow saw. Takes a little more time, but definately doable.
More tree cutting and processing stuff here.
http://home.comcast.net/~dcm4/site/?/photos/
On topic, it doesn't matter what the land owner thinks. It's his tree and his saw. If you want the tree, bring your own saw, and be thankful for the invite.
It takes a year per inch of thickness to dry wood, they say. That said, you can make a bow from a standing tree in no less than 8 weeks. And yes, you can and should clamp it to a caul when you fast process one. Better scenario is to allow for 3 or 4 months, best case scenario, for a beginner to have a stave processed down and ready to start tillering.
Sorry for the rant... sometimes I just get fussy when my experience seems so different than others'. Not claiming to be an expert but I've cut my share of firewood, at one time burning 3 cords a winter for about 10 years there. And I've cut plenty of osage trees as well of all shapes and sizes for bow wood, two a year for the last 10 on average. Ain't nothing magical about osage, and it's better many other species for cutting and splitting.
Living osage is easy to cut, standing dead takes a little more effort.
Like David I have cut more osage trees than I can remember, saw sparks fly from the chain once but suspect grit in the bark.
029 Stihl, sharp chain, and I can have an osage tree on the ground faster than I can describe the process on this thread.
Osage cutting myths have always spread among the bow making community.
Another thing, look at the limbs of a particularly large osage tree as they will probably have better bow wood in them than a gnarly trunk.
I've not had much trouble cutting osage with a chain saw, as long as the chain is sharp. I have a manual aux oil pump on my saw so I can keep extra lube on the bar. A can of WD-40 doesn't hurt either. Use wedges as you go!
I totally agree with DMC.I cut my first O'sage tree's with a bow saw.Ofcourse the biggest was only 8"s and I was a lot younger.
:clapper:
I'd opt for the blade attachment on the front of a bobcat skidsteer.
DCM,
Why did you cut the osage so high up? (Top right corner of pic) Did it look too imposing closer to the ground or was it just to big around for your saw? Looks like your chain saw made a nice clean cut too. :p
Count the rings in that one and let us know what ya got in age. I'd say 50 to 60 yrs. but down south maybe a little less.
Joe
ermmm still standing behind what i said.. the osage on this property atleast - tears saws up, breaks handles and is rock tough - altho the dead dried stuff is tougher - live is still rock hard dense....
Dave
Here ya go Nathan
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v323/Osagetree/Charles%20bow/?action=view¤t=fc27bfd6.pbw
Seems to be a lot of big stories about Osage :rolleyes: It's tough all right but I've cut it from Arkansas, thru Missouri into Illinois and never seen it that hard on a good chainsaw. I'm just sayin. :bigsmyl:
You make a good point Joseph. 90 years of barbed wire was buried in the lower part of that stump. Well according to uncle the fence row was planted in 1920. The tree was about 70 rings if I recall the right one, and correctly. There are trees over 100 on the place, easily. They filed the land grant on this place, early 1800s.
It was the second tree I'd cut that day. This fence row runs around two sides of 160 acres.
(http://home.comcast.net/~dcm4/pwpimages/wc2.JPG)
This first one was dead and down, but off the ground. It was hard compared to this live green one. Poor rings though.
(http://home.comcast.net/~dcm4/pwpimages/wc3.JPG)
This one was leaning but not on the ground and while I pinched my saw on the relief cut it was still too shallow... even after I pecked at it, not having sufficient angle. When I made the felling cut it split out up the center of the tree. I about cried. It was a good tree even despite the loss of some of the butt end.
(http://home.comcast.net/~dcm4/pwpimages/wc8.JPG)
I had three more full sections and some junk from the tops. Not real fine compared to some of the stuff in the midwest, but they ya'll got that ancient dirt.
(http://home.comcast.net/~dcm4/pwpimages/wc4.JPG)
I ain't proud of the job on this one, but if you've cut in an osage thicket, it may be one of the most challenging felling jobs around.
Were I to cite a hardship in such an endeavor, it would not be fear for the saw, rather what's behind the saw. That ole farmer may have some insight into this I suspect. But I'd hate for that or some other antecdote to stifle the ambition of the next guy pining on fetchin his first osage tree.
I'm sorry for my harsh tone. It was sincerely well intentioned, but clearly enjoyed enthusiasm in excess.
I'll agree there may be some exaggerations but, it is one tough wood and I love it. Not everything has to be taken literally here guy's. Exaggerations should be taken with a grain of salt. With your hands tell me how big your last fish was? You know, the inexperienced will find out for themselves and the experienced already know. Nothing is harder than the will of man,,, how's that for an exaggeration? :bigsmyl:
Thank you Mr. Mims I love a good rebuttal. Besides everyone knows I don't use a chainsaw to gather my osage just a big old hand saw I sharpen with metal file and set the teeth witha cresent wrench. If I can do it to a 45 year old osage you know it can be done by anyone else.
We must have both been writting the above at about the same time.
Sorry, I would not want to discourage anyone!
I thought I remembered you were the one. I envy your saw, your skill and your heritage. I imagine we have a whole lot more in common than differences. You strike me as a man "who keeps a sharp ax." I looked but had trouble navigating your link earlier. That was a great thread, seems many moons ago now.
"Nothing is harder than the will of man..."
Great quote. Accounts for a lot in our lives too, often more than we would concede. But then that same nature... bullheadedness if you will, is what put us on this trail to begin with.
Since we don't have a lot of Osage locally, and have never cut any personally, you may want to disregard anything I say :D . Being stave free at the moment, I can't afford to pi$$ anybody off so I'm going to take the middle road here :readit: .
So you guys that cut your own wood in one local may have different experiences than someone in another part of the country. Something to think about anyhow.
For you guys that have an over abuntant supply of Osage, anybody looking for a new best bud? :bigsmyl: ART
Art email me your snailmail address. Someday a stick 'o dis osage liable take a notion of wanderlust towards a rising sun.
dcm4@comcast.net
I've been scouting for this years cutting but haven't found one I fancied, other than a mockernut. I shy from the big stuff anymore, preferring in the 8" to 10" size. I have seen like you describe, fat ringed osage from a field edge. Also that wretched twisted stuff from up on the ridges. I have seen one specimen from Oklahoma near as red as Santa's britches, and it was hard and heavy for sure.
thanks for all the replys, Im hopefully gonna cut some trees down this week. How thin do you make your osage bows?
Thanks David, I'll be hollering at you soon.
Boy, I prize a good piece of hickory as much as the next man! We got plenty of the stuff on our property but I can't swing the ol' saw anymore. My ailment seems to affect all the young folk around here as well. Sign of the times!
bowur, depending on length, 1 1/2" (shorter bows) to 1 1/4" (longer) is pretty standard. That'll get you started, you'll pick up on some of the other variables as you proceed. ART
My photobucket was down or my computer would not let me get there or I would have posted these pics earlier for some encouragement.
Osage,,, big or small, I got my saw!
For a smother, easier cut carry some kerosene for cutting the sap of your saw blade!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/Osagetree/Self%20Bows/IMG_0108.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/Osagetree/Self%20Bows/IMG_0174.jpg)
At least DCM has his wife to help do the work and appearently splits them where he cuts'em. Carrying the big osage and getting it into my jeep myself was not easy!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/Osagetree/Self%20Bows/IMG_0180.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/Osagetree/Self%20Bows/IMG_0324.jpg)
There are some osage trees in the C&O Canal National Park that are 4-6 feet in diameter near White's Ferry, MD. One of the rangers talked about rumors that George Washington planted the hedge row. That would make them up to 250 years old. I looked in my hard drive, but don't have any pictures of the biggest trees. If it was private land, it would still take a serious woodcutter with a pro saw to take down a tree like that.
Yes, the story told is the settlers planted for live fence rows! I have also cut my share of "hedge" and fire wood growing up.
No matter what or how, make sure to be safe!
All trees, especially leaners, blowing in the wind, are under tension. When cut, you unleash that tension.
I have had 2 classmates in the past 5 years, lose the lives to trees. And a young man, locally, was helping friends remove a tree after a storm, and was killed when the tree kicked back.
Be safe! Osage is great! Oh, and leave a stump and come back in about 5 years or more, and you got some shoots to use for the kids!
Myself, I have found dead dried hickory or dogwood to be much tougher on saws, be it a chainsaw or bandsaw, than osage. Not much that will dull a blade faster than dried hickory IMO.
400 year old osage (if it even existed) would make poor bow wood. Thin Rings!
I never had too much trouble with a chainsaw either. Had a couple that got hot and trashed my blade, it was a little dull to begin with though. A logger told me he would adjust the angle of the blade edge for hard woods like osage. He's been cuttin the stuff for 60 years so I suspect he knows what he is talking about, but I never did and didn't have much trouble with it.
When I was about 12 I decided to make a bow out one growin next to a ditch. I used a bow saw (which broke) and an axe. I managed to get through it...chainsaw is much easier. Just make sure you start with a sharp blade and don't run it in the dirt.
DCM, Anytime you find a leaning tree and you don't want it to split up the middle, you have to cut it different. You have to "drill cut" from the center out, not towards the notch. Works everytime. Most leaning trees will split if you don't, unfortunately.
I cut down the osage this weekend. It was actually around 100 years old I'd say, but it was actually pretty easy to cut down with just an axe. took like 10 minutes for a tree maybe 6" in diameter
6 in osage id say 15 20 year s tops but glad ya got it look at ur early eood late wood rito ull know what ya got easey brock
ya the tree i cut was pretty young, but they had some that were like 3-4 feet in diameter. All of the big ones I couldnt cut because the branches were all tangled really bad
Good deal bowur. Sometimes you just gotta take matters in hand. If abo man could do it with a sharp rock... well you get my point.
Dan I've heard that called a plunge cut I reckon, and while at the time I did not consider it in hindsight I have. I'm not a sawyer by a long shot, so I am a little reluctant to try it because of kick back. But if you think about it, it's only the first inch or so of the cut that will get you in trouble. I thought about posting this, but decided against it. Only a handful of guys would likely have the stuff to do this safely, and they don't need advice from me.
I do wonder though, do you make a small relief cut, plunge above it and come out the top, leaving a little tag just above the relief. Seems like you'd need that to avoid pinch on the plunge cut. Or I suppose you could just start with the plunge, leaving a little tag on the bottom, and then come in from the top down to the plunge and let the tag hang.
Establish a notch on the 'lean side', plunge your saw behind the notch leaving a hinge, cutting towards the opposite direction of the notch. Maybe there is some difficulty in drill cuting, I have been cuttin wood so long I really don't notice. Instead of initially driving the tip straight in the tree, angle a little bit to get a good hole started then turn the saw back perpendicular then drive it all the way through.