today I started another bbb, this should become a 58" ntn recurve, with a reverse handle. The handle would actually be a 1" thick zebrano powerlam, 12" long.
I took a few pictures while working cutting the boo, and tempering the belly, but I would like to know if you're interested in a buildalong?
I'd be glad to do it ;)
Nick
hey nick! all your buildalongs are great you do fantastic work, keep em comin. noel
Nick, that is a stupid question to ask us bow builders. Of course we want a build along! Maybe a few trade secrets too.
DUH!!!! :rolleyes:
I'll supply the popcorn, course ya gotta come here to get it. :bigsmyl:
see another one of your bows come to life? of course.
Sounds great Nick.
Nah who wants to see that.
:smileystooges: :knothead:
well then, let's get it started!!!
my rough materials. the boo is still like 78" long, and I use a 64" template for the first shapeing. 2" will eventually be cut off each end, it goes in the form at 62", chopping to 60" after, so it gives me my 58" bow.
so, after the first chopping to 64" and removing the nodes (on the belly) I brought it to the outlines. This time I did the rough shapeing with my 'japanese carpenters axe', followed by some smoothening with my powerless beltsander.
then I tempered the belly slat, in a cheap-ass, but effective way. I didn't put any reflex in, but it still got 2". I do the tempering before the glueup, as the backside will become concave after. This won't give any troubles when you still have to thin and pretiller the boo.
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/Afbeelding059.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/Afbeelding060.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/Afbeelding061.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/Afbeelding062.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/Afbeelding063.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/Afbeelding064.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/Afbeelding065.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/Afbeelding066.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/Afbeelding067.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/Afbeelding069.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/Afbeelding070.jpg)
the boo should need a couple of days to rehydrate. But I guess it'll be ready once I get it out of the form, so I'll just continue.
what's next:
- pretillering the lams, getting them to the correct thickness (still mostly guessing)
- fixing the fades of the handle, wich is still just one block
- glueing up
wish me luck!!
Nick
like it so far, gotta build me one of these
Wow, bamboo really looks amazing after being heat treated.
Show us some more!
man wish there was boo 2 hours from here ugg! gonna have to order more.
hurry up UPS!!!!
Man this is going to be good as usual
I love the way you improvise Nick. :thumbsup:
I love the look of that heat treated bamboo.
Guys,
somehow all my batteries were empty today, but luckily I could get a few pictures before all went totally out. I feel like I'm letting you guys down right now, but I hope I can explain a bit more.
what I did today:
- tillered the lams
This time I decided to pay a bit more attention to the tiller of the lams. This had gone a bit wrong on my previous BBB, resulting in too soft fades and too stiff outterlimbs. Comparing the total stack of this bow (measured at midlimb) to my previous bbb gave me an idea of how thick I should make my lams. right Now they're just a 1/64" thicker at midlimb, and quite a bit thicker at the fades. This should give me a slightly stronger bow, with less soft fades, and the fact it'll be 2" shorter will also make it draw a little more. Guess it'll 45-55pounds, we'll see what comes out.
shaped the riser/powerlam
I started with a well-known (for those who follow my buildalongs) tool; the anglegrinder with sanding disc(?), having the riserwood clamped onto a 2x3 block of pine. Then I continued with my beltsander, to get everything square. As I wasn't really happy with the fades, I worked a little more on them having the beltsander mounted upside down in my workmate(I used the picture of my previous buildalong). now I have a tight fit on the fades, but the boo doesn't really fit tight on the top (without adding extra clamps). So I'll work on that tomorrow.
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/Afbeelding018.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/Afbeelding019.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/recurve%20buildalong/Afbeelding043.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/Afbeelding016.jpg)
for comparing the stack of both lams I use a monkeywrench(?), as I don't have a caliper yet. Since there's no math behind my previous bow, 'a bit thicker' is sufficient accurate.
Once the stack and tiller are okay, I'll give it a dryrun.
you might notice that I used 2 clamps on either side of the fades, as the boo didn't really bend the way I liked. You might also notice that there's some air in the middle of the riser, between the boo and the zebrano. I'll work on that tomorrow, as I said in the post above.
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/Afbeelding005.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/Afbeelding014.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/Afbeelding012.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/Afbeelding017.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/Afbeelding020.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/Afbeelding022.jpg)
Nick
so you're tillering before glue up? are you also checking for weight here too?
what's next:
- final shapeing of the powerlam/riser
- first piking
- rechecking EVERYTHING
- glueing her up.
If everything goes well, I'll get her off the form by friday.
what I'm going to do then is:
- planing the sides, leaving the tips still wider than intended.
- first stringing
- some limb ajusting; like narrowing the outterlimbs from one side to fix twists, etc.
- once this works out, scraping the boo follows.
- then handleshaping, nockoverlays
- shooting it in, then narrowing the tips, final shapeing, sanding and FINISH!
once again, wish me luck!
Nick
well that is way to cool awesome work right there. :clapper: :clapper:
yes, Akdan. As I can't really calculate the weight, and my scales won't be accurate enough either at those low drawweights, I gotto guess. My first guess, on BBB no.1 was pretty good, it came out at 40#, wich I was pretty pleased with. 50-60# would be ideal, more would be nice as long at the bow wouldn't get excessive set. So I just adjust the tiller on the lams, and measure the stack with the wrench, making it a little thicker to get closer to 50-60#.
thanks No'HEHE Jeff!
Hey Nick, This is a great build along, I've sent the link to my brother in South Africa, as he wants a bow for wing shooting and really likes the sound of it. I know you are in Holland, but where do you get such great Bamboo from? I've looked here in England and appart from ordering from the internet, can't really find places that sell it. Maybe I'm just being dumb, if there are any fellow Brits checking this out, any suggestions? I don't want to buy over the net, as the quality will be what they send me, and not what I choose. Thanks Peter
now now..you cant be sleeping......waiting for more! :D
Peter, email sent ;)
I surely got the worst gluelines EVER on this bow. One clamp at the fades had slipped off over night, leaving a horrible space between the feathered 'powerlam' and the boo. I let some CA run into it. I got similar bad gluelines at the recurves, wich are now becoming a decicive factor for the future limbprofile.
Exept from the glueline, everything was just as I had hoped. The tiller looks good, the bow draws 58#, wich couldn't have been better, and I like her performance, too! even with heavy tips and a unshaped handle(shot 50 arrows)
JUST SHOWING THE WORST GLUELINES!
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/KopievanAfbeelding023.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/KopievanAfbeelding024.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/KopievanAfbeelding025.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/KopievanAfbeelding026.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/KopievanAfbeelding039.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/KopievanAfbeelding040.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/KopievanAfbeelding041.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/KopievanAfbeelding035.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/KopievanAfbeelding033.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/KopievanAfbeelding044.jpg)
(http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh367/hanshanssam/bows2/wood%20laminates/bbb%20recurve%202/KopievanAfbeelding042.jpg)
Nick
awesome stuff!!!!! bad gluelines or not!!!
Hey Nick, that is seriously cool. Apart from the glue lines, I think it turned out well. Thanks for the email!!!
Nick, thanks for the build along. Nice job and fun to watch. Keep up the good work!!
what bad glue lines a blind man would be happy to see those. :biglaugh: nice going indeed.
That bow is looking great, too bad about the glues lines, your prep was great, sometimes stuff just happens.
thanks guys!!
haha yeah a blind man would be happy to see 'em ;)
Nick
Hey Nick I like the looks of these bows and I am making one. It's slow going due to my schedule right now. I'm ready to use the band saw to cut to the lines of the template then thin the boo to the proper thicknesses. Do you have a guess as to how thick the lams are? Did you make the back thinner than the belly?
Bona
bona,
the midlimb stats are the most important. The 40# bow bent too much on the innerlimbs, and too little on the outterlimbs. I Should have tillered both lams better (get both bending properly!)
my 40# bow has a 1/2" thick, 18" long handle, is 60" ntn and measures:
- 7/16" at midlimb (1/2" at fades, 3/8" 4" away from the tips)
my 58# bow (feels a little lighter, guess 55#, wich might also be the smooth draw)
has a 12" long, 1" thick powerlam/grip, is58" ntn and measures:
- 15/32" at midlimb (9/16" at the fades, 11/32" at 4" from tip)
the gain of drawweight from 1/16" and 2" shorter is 15pounds... wow.
Nick
Thanks Nick. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Bona
To the top for Northern Archer.
Nick gave me some measurements just a couple of posts above this one.
I think he was measuring from the crown of the bamboo after glue up.
Bona
Hi Nick,
are those inner tubes from a bike that you use holding every thing together when doing the glue up ?
By the way I like your bows and the way you make em...
Question about heat-treating Bamboo...
It appears that you only treated the piece that you used for the belly. Why is that? Would it be detrimental or useful for me to heat-treat bamboo that I'm using to Back an Ipe longbow?
Beautiful work, by the way.
I believe heat treating the belly is to make it stronger in compression. The bamboo on the back is strong enough in tension as is.
Now drying the back bamboo might help because as it comes it is usually high in moisture.
You guys that really know might correct me if wrong.
Ron
Hey Guys,
I'm sorry I haven't replied earlier, but I hope I'm not to late ;) Haven't finished the bow either :p
but thanks for your nice words guys!
I used bike innertubes indeed, they work pretty well, but you really need clamps at the fades, or your gluelines will be even worse.
the belly is tempered for compression strength, as Ron said. I haven't tried an untempered belly yet, but I intend to heat the next belly quite a bit more.
really wanna start on some new bbb's, been out of this for too long.
Nick
Nick, how about building using Jaap K's method...actually I think it's how they build the yumis, with jute/twine and wedges. Seemed like a sweet idear for something like this, would eliminate the need for clamps, innertubes, and a form. He also built a glass bow using regular glues with this method. just an idear.
And here I sit not thinking I have enough machinery in the garage to build this type of bow. Great build a-long for sure. Flint
Great Job Nick Thanks
Awesome bow...I think I'm going to have to try that next.
Could you go a little more in depth on how you tiller? How do you keep everything together dry? Where on the boo do you remove the material to get it bending correctly? What tools do you use to remove material? Do you remove material from the back or belly lam? Or perhaps both? If from both, how do you decide which one to remove material from?
Thanks in advance,
Clint
Nick, maybe i missed it, what are the widths of the bow from the middle to the nock ends? Secondly, how did you taper the core lam to achieve your desired weight?
Could you cut a shelf on a bow like this?
Thanks for the info, i am wanting to give a bow like this a shot.
Treavor
great threads deserve a bump...
Bob
where is Nick these days? wasn't he joining the Dutch Marines or did he get captured by another girlfriend? i remember really wanting to see some final pictures of that bow, and that i have two just right pieces of bamboo ready to give it a try soon
ttt
All clamps work the best Nick. This is how I clamp my BBO bows up. I use 6 inch end blocks to give me my reflex. After coming out of the form, I end up with 3 inches of reflex at the tips.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_5419.jpg)
Bob, thanks for bringing this one back-it's a great thread. I really liked how Nick went about building this bow-looked nice and simple. I sent him a message a while back about some of the specifics of his form, but haven't heard back yet. Anyone know the specs on the form? How did he get the same amount of bend in the ends-doesn't look like there were 'stops' for the clamps? Any help's appreciated.
Oh, and Roy-great looking setup you have there.
Jeremy
Great Build along thanks for Bringing it up,
I messed it the first time around,
May have to attempt this one.
Nick get's real busy with school from time to time and other teenage boy going on's.
He'll be around sooner or later. That boy sure does have skill and builds some beautiful bows.
Roy could you give a few more specifics like distance from centre to the two blocks and over all length of bow.
I use a set up like yours but think I need to adjust some.
Miss Nick also.
Thanks, Ro
I think we need to get the boy a dial caliper, it is a tad bit more accurate than a cresent wrench!LOL! Can you imagine the work this young man would turn out in a well equipped shop???
What amazing ingenuity!
Well, well, well.
I haven't been on Tradgang for a while and seeing my old thread still living makes me very happy!
truth is, being totally into all-wood laminates, my desire to make bows broke along with my beltsander. Not being able to find another one quickly, kinda demotivated me and I left things alone. In addition, I've been training Kyukushin Karate for 8months now and started kickboxing recently. Being very busy with these martial arts, work and even school, bowmaking pretty much fell to the background.
It's very likely that I would've been much more active if I had a beltsander, but the search and actual purchase of one requires quite some time, money and especially efford. I want to, but it's hard to get started being busy with so many other things. Ofcourse, I can make bows without a beltsander, but I don't really want to. Maybe I'll make a new start this summer!
Let's start replying your questions and stop my boring story :p
AkDan, yes, I have thought about the rope&wedges method, I really think it is the very best method for these bows. But I am too lazy to put the efford, time and especially my precious bamboo into making the 100+ wedges I need for that ;) Maybe I'll buy much more bamboo the next time and just get it done!
Thank you Flint and Steve!!
Clint, I tiller these lams separately with my beltsander, If both bend correctly, I check the thickness. If the lams are too thick, I sand some with my beltsander from one of the lams. Since this bow had a reverse handle, the back-lam needed to be thinner in order to make the curve, so I removed most of the material from the backing strip. If both lams have the correct bend and thickness, I glue them together. Since I don't really care about exact drawweights; I like anything between 40 and 70pounds for regular bows, this method works great. But if you use the same form, and make a couple of bows, you should be able to get pretty close to the desired drawweight.
when tillering the separate lams, I remove wood from the inner(concave) side of the boo, leaving the strong, outter 'powerfibres' intact.
once it's flattened out, I remove more boo the closer I get to the end. Then, I bend the strip in my hands, to check the tiller. If it bends properly, the taper is correct, and I leave it.
Treavor, I think the bow is like 1 3/4" wide to midlimb, then tapering to 1/2" nocks. And yes, if your handle is thick enough, you can cut in a shelf.
let's start a new reply for the next page!
Nick
Loren, indeed I want to join the dutch marines, or special forces, but I would prefer afighterpilot (wich would be either F16 or APACHE!) ;) tests for fighter pilot this fall!
No girlfriend hehe!
Roy, Nice setup! yet I think rope&wedges would be the best for BBB's ;)Clamps get slippery on the oval crossection of BBB's and don't distribute the pressure well over the edges. No doubt your method works great for bbo's though, especially with enough clamps ;)
thank you all for your kind comments! I feel honoured :D
Nick
Hey, Nick-
Don't suppose I could get a little info on your form, could I? And shoot, maybe we could do a fundraiser to get you a beltsander :) .
Jeremy
Jeremy,
I don't really think it applies to the definition 'form'. It's 2 blocks at each tip, 4" high. by tightening the clamps directly behind the blocks, you create the curve in the tips.
you see, not really a form :p
hope this helps?
Nick
Macbow, I measure from the center of the handle out for the mid limb posts. For a heavy hunting bow I place the top mid limb post at 13 inches and the bottom mid limb post at 12 5/8th. For a lighter bow I make the top post at 16 and the bottom at 15 5/8th. You can vary those measurements anywhere you want between those numbers. The shorter you measure out, the more deflex you get. I normally go with 15 inches for top limb and 14 5/8th for the bottom limb. I use a 3 3/4 inch center post, 2 3/4 inch mid limb posts, and 6 inch end posts.
i think once i move and get my new shop set up im going to be trying my luck at building one of these. Great build along.
Thanks for the response, Nick. And that's my kind of "form" :D . I went back and looked at your pics and am trying to figure out how you got equal curve in both tips? It doesn't look like you have some kind of stops or anything for the clamps-did you just eyeball it as you tightened the clamps? What's the worst case scenario if you don't have the same amount of bend in each tip? Would the tiller be all out of whack then? Thanks
Jeremy
worst case scenario IF unequal? aestetical displeasement ;)
yes, just eyeballing
Im gonna revive this one! I have way too much bamboo than i know what to do with here! I just have no tools or glue... I guess its time to bring out the inner MacGyver!
I'm going to revive this one also since there were some others who had questions and interest in an all bamboo bow. I'm going to start work on my bamboo slats today, just pulled 2 backings down out of the rafters in my garage. Time to fire up that noisy old belt sander!
Hopefully Nick will see this and stop by for a bit. This is a great build along and thanks to Vanilla Bear for dredging it out of the archives for me! :thumbsup:
Thanks for digging this one up. I was thinking of planing a couple of slats today also, if it's not too cold in the garage.
Dave.
How would you plane them? I've got a planer, but I can't see a way of sending them through it without making both sides flat, then it would need a backing because the nodes and back fibers would be violated leaving a place to raise a splinter.
If you could explain what you had in mind Dave it would help me understand what you've got going on.
Sorry, I should have said run them over the jointer to flatten them. I have planed natural bamboo before and used it on the belly of my first bow. It worked fine and is a good shooter.
I bought a bundle of slats and they are cut to width, but need flattening on the jointer. Use a pair of push blocks to keep it flat on the jointer,go slow and keep your fingers well clear of the knives! This is not my favorite part of a build. :scared:
After it's flattened, you can send it through your planer if you want to use it as an internal lam.
For this bow I'm just going to flatten a pair of slats and maybe make a thin jatoba core lam and tip wedges. I thought about it all night and I think I'll make it 1 1/2" wide at the fades. that way I can narrow it as necessary to lighten it.
Have you come up with a plan yet?
Dave.
Yes I have and I'd like everyone's opinion on what I've come up with so far. I'll post it along with a couple pics in my original BBB thread rather than clutter up this build along any further. Your idea makes more sense now and that's basically what I'm going to do without the jointer, substitute old worn out belt sander. :banghead:
I like this simple build. Is Nick still on here?
Nice job on that one :shaka:
I have 3 pieces of boo, and have been thinking of what to do with them.
No idea about Nick's whereabouts, but that sure is a cool bow that he made.
I want to give that a try someday, too.