I am building this bow for a friend of mine and he has no clue it is coming his way. Hence the strange name. I figured a build along was in order. We will see if he catches on. Any suggestions on different and better ways to do things are always welcome.
The bow is going to be 58" String Groove to String Groove. It is a recurve with a set back handle. Nothing fancy in the woods. All of the woods are woods that I buy at a local saw mill here in Northeast Pennsylvania.
First my pile of lam stock to choose from. The stock includes Ash, Hard Maple, Black Walnut, and Hickory.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/sweet%20water%20bow%201/DSCN9823.jpg)
I figured that walnut under clear glass would look good for my friend so I picked out 4 strips and set up the home made lam grinder. The strips are cut to 3/16 thick+. The bow has .003 per inch of running taper. There are two tapers on each limb. One lam is .120 thick tapered .002 per inch and one lam is .090 and tapered .001 per inch.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN9974.jpg)
and here is an action shot of the grinder in action.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/th_DSCN9969.jpg) (http://s214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/?action=view¤t=DSCN9969.flv)
The noise is the vacuum attached to the grinder and it does work! Here is a little clip of what you get on one pass without the vac hooked up and running. This is also my brothers first experience grinding laminations. Turns out he doesn't like the smell of walnut. Then again, neither do I!
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/th_DSCN9976.jpg) (http://s214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/?action=view¤t=DSCN9976.flv)
After I got the lams ground it was time to go over to the wood pile and snag a piece of wood for the riser. I figured ash footed with two strips of walnut would be nice so I selected and cut a nice piece for the riser block.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN9992.jpg)
I then set up my footing jig on the band saw. And got ready to start cutting.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN9993.jpg)
A few cuts later and my riser block is ready for the glue up!
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN9994.jpg)
I use Smooth On Epoxy. I got the glue smeared and pressure added! Always a bit of a messy but fun process.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN9995.jpg)
And in to the oven for the night!
pete
pete
Cool Jig, and cool grinder. Looks good so far.
I love it Pete! I'll be following along as usual.
Looks great. Thanks for sharing.
That is the beauty of this site: So many ways the get the job done and all of them are so educational.
Sit back this is going to be a long session! I had the chance to work on the bow for a number of hours and really moved it forward. Last night I put the riser block in the oven. THis morning I shut the oven off at 4:00 am on my way to work. When I got home It was shop time!
The first thing I did was head over to the oven and pull out the blank. It looked good so I took it over to the Jointer to square the block. I have to say that the jointer is one of the greatest time saving tools. In a few minutes I can do hours worth of hand work.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/th_DSCN0001.jpg) (http://s214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/?action=view¤t=DSCN0001.flv)
and the finished product!!!
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0004.jpg)
and it is perfectly square!
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0008.jpg)
The next step is to trace the form outline on to my block. I used to use a template to do this now I use the bow press form.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0009.jpg)
I always check band saw square before I cut anything that matters in the least.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0012.jpg)
Always follow the Greywolf rule!
"Cut outside of the line and sand to the line!"
Here is the riser block set on the bow form after sawing. I really don't try to get real tight here. Just a rough fit.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0013.jpg)
Then I set up my el cheapo sanding station. and yes check it for square!
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0016.jpg)
A few minutes later and we are almost light tight on the fit.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0018.jpg)
lots more soon!
pete
Oh boy!!!! Its really starting to get good.
Shawn
Then I use the template to draw in the top portion of the riser block cuts. The band saw is used as well as the sander to bring it to the line. Here is how a certain someone, APEX Stand up and be noted, told me how he gets his riser fades so thin! OH wait that might just be a trade secret. If it is ok with APEX I will share but not till I get his OK>!!!!
Here is a shot of how thin I was able to get the fades using Apex's method.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0022.jpg)
My next step is to tooth the riser block. I use an 18 TPI hack saw blade mounted in my vice. Simple and cheap! I really like that!
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0024.jpg)
Does it work You Ask?
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0025.jpg)
Now we are ready to head towards glue up. First step the lams are cleaned with a bristle brush and placed in the warm bow oven. Here is the form waxed with the eccentric washers and clear plastic wrap in place.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0027.jpg)
and then the glue table is set up and we start the process of SHMEARing Glue. I put all of the parts in order before I start the glue process. I also make sure that the laminations are positioned so the part I want on the outside of the bow is on the outside.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0030.jpg)
After the parts are all glued and placed on the bow press the entire mess is covered with plastic wrap and then the taping, wrapping, banding process begins. This is were it is really helpful to have a friend (In my case my wife, She is a friend too!) help.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0046.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0059.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0066.jpg)
And then it is time for the oven!
Tomorrow We say goodbye to parts hello bow blank!
pete
I took the bow blank out of the oven tonight and spent about an hour removing the glue boogers and tape and cleaning up the edges so I wont get FG splinters. Inspection showed me two small areas where the glass is foggy but the areas are near the edges at the tips where the bad part will be trimmed off. I guess all I can say is, it is what it is!
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/3.jpg)
pete
Dang this is good.
Pete real nice build. If your friend decides he does not want it I will personally be more then happy to add it to my collection of the bows you have built for me.
Taking "Lightening" out for a hunt tomorrow.
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/heilakka/Bows/lightening/DSCN3421.jpg)
Pete, my friend, feel free to share anything I share with you. I am an open book! Looking good man!
Thank you APEX!!
As I said at the beginning of this build I am always looking for a better way to do things. One of the things I was never happy with were the fades on my riser blocks. Being a bit of a lurker on this site I would see an Apex build and marvel at the quality of his fades and say "Some Day."
"Some Day" came one day when I sent Marty a simple private message.
"How do you get your fades so thin?"
The reply was waiting for me the next time I logged on.
"Back up the fade with the cut off and use the drum sander." That simple instruction along with a picture was all that was needed. I would post his original pic but I have no idea where it is so you will have to make due with my el cheapo drum sander shot.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0021.jpg)
By backing the fade up with the cut off I find that I am able to precisely control the pressure and angles that I am grinding. IF you look closely at the picture you can see a pencil mark at the end of the riser fade. This is where the fade will end.
Thank you Apex!
pete
Somewhere out in the land of electrons are a bunch of pictures that simply disapeared on me. :eek:
The next step was to retape the bow and find the centerline. I use the string method with a combination of a flexible straight edge to draw the Center Line on the bow blank.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/fainter%20trails%20bow/DSCN9388.jpg)
and then I use a pattern to draw the bow limbs on the bow. I made the pattern out of formica. I also use only one side of the pattern to make sure the limb sides are identical.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/fainter%20trails%20bow/DSCN9403.jpg)
and then I grind the limbs to shape using my tabletop belt sander. After the limbs are shapped I cut the nocks in using a file. I start with a triangle file to cut the initial grove and then round it with a rat tail file. I then string the bow up and check to see that the limbs are pulling balanced and straight. This pic shows the limb pulling to the left with the 18 inch tiller stick in position.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/a17.jpg)
after triple checking the string nocks I knew I had to remove a little material from the side of the bow limb. The material has to be removed from the side of the limb that the tip is pointing to or the left side as we look at the limb. I use a hand held sanding block to do this. it doesn't take a lot to change the limb. This pic shows the limb pulling straight.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/a20.jpg)
Next I check the balance of the limbs with a bowsquare. I want to make sure the bottom limb is stiffer than the tip limb by about 1/4 of an inch. This bow was about 1/32" off so I sanded the bottom limb on the glass face and belly to bring the bow in to balance. To do this I use a flexible sanding pad. With the limbs balanced it was time to start the riser shaping. First Layout. I Cover the entire bow with tape to protect it from scratches and make the layout easy to draw and see.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/a23.jpg)
Then the band saw! I use my fiberglass cutting blade to do this. That is why the wood is burned.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/A5.jpg)
and then it is off to the drum sanders to bring in the curves. NO pics till the end sorry!
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/A7.jpg)
That is all for now.
pete
coming along nicely. Should be ready for shotability test soon. Saw your friend this weekend and he sends a big hello. I didn't say anything about the bow.
We wouldn't want to spoil the surprise!
Well, the bow has moved forward since last post. It may not seem like much but it is now in to the details. Here is the bow starting to look like a bow. The riser is shaped. This is actually at the first shooting. I always test the bow at this point to see that the riser is close to comfortable and I want to see that the bow is shooting close to where I want it to hit. By changing the grip I can change the point of impact. This one shot fine for this stage. Shooting off the shelf with an improperly set nock point I had a 5 inch group where I wanted it at 15 yards.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/A8-1.jpg)
The next step is to finish in the tips. This bow is getting Ash String pads and black Linen phenolic tip overlays. First I cut the string pads way over size. I boil them for about 15 minutes and then I clamp them on to the bow using C clamps and wood scraps to protect the fiberglass and the new string pad.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/a13-1.jpg)
I let this sit for 24 hours and then I remove the clamps and the string pads from the bow. I then dry heat the string pads using a heat gun. This allows me to add the last little bit of arch that the pad needs to match the tip of the bow without putting any stress on the bow tip or the glue joint. I also use heat to shape the phenolic tip to match the arch of the bow tips. Before applying glue I rough sand the tapers in to the string pads and tips using my drill press drum sander.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0008-1.jpg)
With all of the parts final shaped and ready for assembly I tooth the pads and mix the glue. I then put all of the parts in place and then wrap the entire tip with plastic wrap.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0018-1.jpg)
this mess is then clamped with C clamps and put in the warm box to cure. The next day I remove them and begin the cleanup of the tips. This tip is rough sanded and ready for shaping.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0022-1.jpg)
I use a detail sander to blend the string pads and tip overlay in to the fiberglass.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0023-1.jpg)
pete
Lookin good Pete!!
beautiful bow pete! noel
Thanks for the compliments guys! I am planning of finishing with Minwax Helmsman. What other finishes would you suggest? I do have spray equipment and was actually thinking about one of the automotive clear coats. Anyone ever try that?
pete
I like tru oil gun stock finish.
I just love Fullerplast!
wow coming along nicely pete. Can not wait to see it.
pete,
when you took the left twist out of the limb, you said you sanded the left side? that's the part that always confuses me. where on the limb did you sand (root, mid, or tip) and how much to take out that twist?
Joe,
I know what you mean about the confusion on which way to take the twist out of the limb.
The process that I use to check the limbs is actually a lot more than what I went in to on the build along.
If there is any twist when I first string the bow the first thing I do is check the string nocks. If the string nocks are not even on both sides of the limb you will end up with a twisted limb. The next thing that I do is check how the string is resting in the string nocks. These nocks are not smoothed and rounded so the string does not always find its natural center. If the string is at all mis-aligned you will have twist. Once I have determined that the limb is indeed twisted I un-string the bow and look at the twisted limb. First I compare the right side to the left side. Sometimes close inspection will reveal a small area where the limb is a little wider on the strong side. In this case I sand down the wide spot to match the other side. I also use a ruler that is marked in 1/64 of an inch and compare the width of the right and left halves of the limb to each other. If I find a side that has a little more width I remove the extra material. If I am unable to determine the actual cause of the twist using the above methods I will deepen the string nock on the strong side of the bow about a 1/16 of an inch. I then remove material from the strong side of the limb starting at the fade going all the way to the tip. I then repeat the procedures listed before, and recheck the limb. I will do this at the most two times. IF after that there is any remaining twist I take the bow strung with the tiller stick in place and place it on the ground where I can stand over it. I eyball the twisted limb and try to determine where the twist starts. Once I have determined that I mark it with a light pencil mark, un-string the bow, measure back from the tip to the mark and write the number down. I then erase the mark. Walk away from the bow for a while. Return and do the same thing with fresh eyes. If I find that the limb twist is starting at the same point I then un-string the bow and start sanding from about an inch back of the mark to the tip of the bow. I take maybe a dozen strokes with 120 grit sand paper on a 12" sanding block and then re check the tiller. It is one of those things that depending on the amount of twist I may take more but Do Move SLOWLY! Like everyone says you cant put it back.
One thing to keep in mind when working on limb twist. Any change that you make will affect how the other limb rests. Go slowly!
pete
Glen Newell of Austrilia contacted me on a PM and shared the following. I like the Idea so I wrote Glenn back and asked if I could share his method of thinning the limbs. I will try it on the next bow.
Glenn Wrote
"G'day Pete, I was just looking at your buildalong on the recurve. When I shape up the limbs I use a hand held Makita planner with carbide blades. The planner goes through the fibreglass like butter and even after 10 bows the blades are still sharp, I just finish off to the line on the linisher. The other advantage of the planner as to the bandsaw is that the limbs stay cool through the whole process. I have shaped up over 200 hundred custom bows with the planner now and it only takes minutes to do. I did use the bandsaw once but I didn't it burnt the timber core and it seemed to be a painful exercise as compared to the planner. The bow you made on the buildalong looks real good...Glenn.."
I did ask Glenn if he put the bow in the vice or the plane and had he tried both. The following was his response.
Glen Wrote
"Pete I have mainly only ever mounted the bow in the vise and moved the palner down the limbs. I did try mounting the planer upside down once but I prefer to have the bow in the vise. I set the blades very course to get the bulk off but then set it fine to finish off.. I have never had any damage with splinters coming off the limbs but the blades must be tungsten carbide.
No worries about sharing the info in your build along...Glenn "
Thanks Glenn.
pete
nice!
I like to see how you use your tools, and I especially like your thickness sander. Do you have any buildalong of it? As I have plans for something similar.
your bow looks outstanding so far. Looking forward to updates!!
Nick
Has anyone got an extra camera? I lost my camera so no pics right now.
All I can do is tell you that the nocks are being filed to shape. TO start the process with the overlay and the lim pads in place I refile the original nock that is now filled with glue and then start shaping.
The first thing I do is to focus on perfecting the string path over the overlay and down the pad on the belly of the bow. To do this I use a rat tail file and one of the small chain saw sharpening files. As a guide to see how the string paths are doing I use an old string. The key here is to make sure that there are no sharp edges and the string can find its natural center on the loop. Here are some pics from a previous bow that I built.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/apadora/DSCN8525.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/apadora/DSCN8526.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/apadora/DSCN8529.jpg)
I sure hope I find that camera.
pete
Well, I found the camera! Here are pics of how I carve/shape the nock. After the groves are in the limb of the bow and the limbs are pulling straight and true I start the shaping process. The first thing I do is use the rat tail to file the side of the nock away so I can shape the string grove nice and smooth from the back of the bow to the string pad on the belly. This first cut is to get the excess wood out of the way.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0062.jpg)
After it is out of the way I then smooth the groove. again I am constantly checking even and square with a string. This photo shows the rounding process.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0065.jpg)
This is what it looks like from the belly after one side is done.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0067.jpg)
I finish the both sides and then use a string to trace the location of the string on the string pad. This shows the pad with the string in place and the groove traced.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0068.jpg)
Again the rat tail file is my tool of choice to groove the string pad. I finish filing with a chain saw file. You will also see that I have smoothed the sides of the nock "Extending" the cut of the string groove out to the tip of the bow limb.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0070.jpg)
I then make two last cuts to bring the tip to a point.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0073.jpg)
From here out it is sanding and smoothing to final shape.
Thanks for watching. As I said earlier there are lots of ways to do this. This is just the way I do it. If you have a different or easier way, I would love to see it.
pete
Pete, this is excelent.
about the tips; Looking at the thickness of your string I'd suggest to remove 1/16" from each side of the tip, to reduce the tip-mass a little, but it might also make the tips look better. Right now they're 'semi-pinnocks', wich you may like, or not.
This is just my humble opinion :)
Nick
Nick
Thanks for the suggestions. The sharp edges have been curved and like you suggested the tip of the bow is going to be thinned/narrowed. What is your favorite nock shape? I am still trying to find one that I really like for my bows.
pete
How about a picture of the finished product.
sorry pete, missed your question. But I like long, narrow overlays with nicely rounded grooves(in crossection).
like these beauties by mike/jason westfang (dryadbows)
http://dryadbows.com/All%20Natural%20Collection/images/BushWacker/BW12.jpg
no corners on my bows. None at all ;)
Nick
Picture of the finished product is still a bit out there! Lots of details to be filled in. And Nick, thanks for the pic! Someday I will get them that smooth! I do like the curves! I think I may just have to bring them in to play on the next bow. Unfortunately this one is a little to far along to follow your lead. So to pick up where I left off...
With the nocks roughed in so the tips are "close" to finished, it was time to finish the grip. The part that was missing was a slender piece of wood that goes on the back of the bow to round out the glass. The piece of wood that I cut out of the riser when I originally shaped it comes in to play and final fitted to the back of the bow.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0074-1.jpg)
Once the fit on this is light tight I tooth the wood with the 18 tpi hack saw blade, rough up the glass, smear everything with 20 minute epoxy and wrap it in clear plastic wrap to clamp it to the bow for 24 hours.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0081.jpg)
Ta Da Stripped of the plastic!
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0090.jpg)
Aggressive use of files, sanding drums, sandpaper and other stock removal tools leaves me with a roughed in grip.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0091.jpg)
And then the finish shaping. This little piece of wood really makes a difference on the feel and fit of the bow.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0095.jpg)
With the riser fitted it was time to go back and finish the tips. Here the limb pad has been final shaped and is ready for finish sanding.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0097.jpg)
final shaping of the phenolic tip overlay is completed and then the sanding starts.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0098.jpg)
The bow is close to done now. Finish sanding and rounding of the limbs and then the application of the selected yet to be determined finish.
pete
Lookin good Pete,I been outta the loop here for a week!!
Got home today and had the requisite time to move Peanut ahead. The work that needed to be done was the final tweaking of the tips and the riser. This is more of a tuning thing that I do rather than something for aesthetics. What I do is string the bow and check the tiller to make sure that the bow is pulling straight with the nocks finalized and then I shoot it. This is where I do the "Shootability" test as my friend Greywolf calls it. Is the bow shooting where I am looking? Is it kind to shoot? Well the first time out I had arrows all over the place but mostly to the left. What I did was remove just a touch of wood from the meaty part on the back of the riser so the bow would naturally pivot just a hair to the right in my hand. I also raised the brace height to 7" where it should have been to begin with.
I cleaned her up again and it was time to head outside. Here are the first three shots after just the little bit of clean up. These three shots were taken at 18 yards.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/peanut/DSCN0100.jpg)
Did I mention that I want the bow to shoot with a variety of mis matched arrows? I was actually aiming just a skotch lower than I hit but that can easily be adjusted with the addition of a shelf pad, and the nock point. The bow felt smooth so it is now time for clean up and finish. I am going to wimp out on this one and use the Minwax.
pete
very nice! I'm sure your buddy will be pleasantly suprised!
It never ceases to amaze me the generosity of the folks involved in Traditional Archery. Pete came to Florida this past weekend to enjoy sonme of our record high tempeartures- it has been flat out brutal!!! I arrived at camp on Friday afternoon, and was getting ready for the afternoon baking in a tree and was handed this bow! Wow- I was shocked, especially when I see the time and effort put into a custom bow and to realize the ability it takes to make one. I have no such talent.
We played with the bow, but we all wanted to hunt so I really haven't had the time to tune the bow and practice with it before it gets in a tree with me. All I can say is that it shoots as sweet as any bow I own and I can't wait to give it a try. Pete will be here all week and when I get back this weekend maybe the temperature will drop enough to make ya wanna shoot in the yard. Last week was that brutal- even with a new toy to play with! Not only is Pete a talented bowyer, but he knows his way around a swamp buggy mechanically. As I left camp on Sunday morning, my steering box bolts were broken and he was busy taking off the old and saying- no worries, by the time you get back- it will be all back together! Definitely a handy fella to have around!!!
A mere thanks seems a little short!!!
I finally got down to Florida and had a great time hunting. One of the fun parts of the trip was turning to Marty and handing him the bow and saying "Hey this is for you." Yes we had a blast and I even managed to kill a pig.
Marty is the skinny one on the left.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/longbowpete/2009%20fl%20deer%20pig/DSCN0344.jpg)
pete
very nice! congrats on the howg
More pictures? :) looks like one hell of a bow!
you bet I'm jealous of the new owner!
Nick