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Main Boards => Hunting Knives and Crafters => Topic started by: kbaknife on February 13, 2011, 04:48:00 PM

Title: Laminated Hunter
Post by: kbaknife on February 13, 2011, 04:48:00 PM
Here's one that should make a great Every-Day-Carry Hunter/Utility. You know what I mean.
I forged this blade from a bar I laminated with 203E corrosion resistant steel onto the outside of a piece of 1095 High Carbon tool steel.
The 203E will protect the 1095 core from stain and corrosion except for the exposed working portion of the blade.
The inset photo shows the cool shiny reflection from the iron at the edge of the 203E that I could not get to show in the other photos.
The guard is stainless.
The handle is Stabilized Curly Walnut.
All designed in the Andersen Forge Take-down method.

  (http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/Knives%202011/CWg-1.jpg)

 (http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/Knives%202011/CWj-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Laminated Hunter
Post by: JamesJamison on February 13, 2011, 04:57:00 PM
Beautiful knife.
Title: Re: Laminated Hunter
Post by: skullworks on February 13, 2011, 05:08:00 PM
Awesome stuff Karl!
Title: Re: Laminated Hunter
Post by: SveinD on February 13, 2011, 05:48:00 PM
Love the look on that steel!
Title: Re: Laminated Hunter
Post by: Gav on February 13, 2011, 05:57:00 PM
Woof! Purty, Purty!!
Title: Re: Laminated Hunter
Post by: kansas stik man on February 13, 2011, 06:33:00 PM
sha-weet work man.  nice tight fit there.
Title: Re: Laminated Hunter
Post by: OconeeDan on February 13, 2011, 06:34:00 PM
Very nice Karl.  
You could call that "Lightning Bolt".
I like your laminated blades, they are unique.
Dan
Title: Re: Laminated Hunter
Post by: Toecutter on February 13, 2011, 06:50:00 PM
Beautiful again!!  Is it poor form to ask your heat treating recipe for the steel?  Also temper?  If its none of my damn business, I understand.

Nathan
Title: Re: Laminated Hunter
Post by: kbaknife on February 13, 2011, 07:27:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Toecutter:
Beautiful again!!  Is it poor form to ask your heat treating recipe for the steel?  Also temper?  If its none of my damn business, I understand.

Nathan
Heck no, it's not poor form!! If any maker doesn't tell you his heat treating process for a given knife/steel, don't buy a knife from him.
He's either hiding something or doesn't know what he's doing. Or both.
Of course, my process might be too detailed for my typing proficiency and available time - I have a pizza in the oven!
The laminated blade is treated primarily like I would do for a simple 1095 blade, however, there are post-forging reducing heat steps, quenches and spherodizing procedures that are a little difficult to explain.
For example, after I forge the blade with reducing heats, I do 7 specific post-forging steps prior to a sub-critical spherodizing anneal, that include grain refinement and 2 quick quenches, that done incorrectly, result in blade cracks. This is because of the irregular cooling of the 203E and the 1095. Not done right and the 1095 rips right down the middle from end to end!
So, it's just hard to describe.
But once it's ground and ready to harden, the blade is thermal cycled 2-3 times to dissolve all the alloy and carbides just prior to a semi-controlled austenization at about 1475 and quenching in 80 degree Parks #50 oil.
Too long of an austenizing cycle with this 1095 brings too much carbon into solution and sort of results in too much brittleness, so the cycle is really important and I never harden with anyone else around so I can really feel the force!
I also have the tempering oven ready and up to full heat - where I have put it for a full hour for equalizing.
I don't normally care on most steels, as it's really not important if things are done correctly, and little danger exists, but with this combo, the tempering oven needs to be ready to receive the freshly quenched blade.
Then, 2 tempering cycles at about 425 for an hour and a half.
Whew.
Title: Re: Laminated Hunter
Post by: Toecutter on February 13, 2011, 08:14:00 PM
UGGGhhHHH!!  Me thinks I may have(definitely) gotten in over my head!!  I don't want to bug you any more on the details, but if i do decide to try something using this combination of steel, is there an internet available source for the heat treating steps. If not, I'm not afraid (or smart enough) to shy away from some good old fashioned trial and error!  Thanks for your time and enjoy the pizza.  I'm about to make some time intensive nachos in a few moments myself!!

Nathan
Title: Re: Laminated Hunter
Post by: kbaknife on February 13, 2011, 08:28:00 PM
I know of no on-line info source for this process. It's not dissimilar to welding up Damascus, but there's just one weld - no cutting and re-stacking for more layer count.
That makes the initial "idea" of it quite appealing, but consider this - there is NO carbon in the 203E to begin with. But when welding, there is some carbon migration from the core steel TO the laminate.
After about 300 layers in a Damascus process, the carbon migrates from MOST to LEAST until it all equals out.
In this process, we only make 1 weld.
This robs SOME of the carbon from the 1095 and gives SOME of it to the 203E.
This results in an extremely irregular layering of carbon throughout the blade.
If you do not have a really firm grasp of what's going on inside that steel, and don't have fairly precise temp controls throughout the forging, post-forging and hardening processes, expect a lot of failure.
What I'm saying is, a person might get some of this welded up just fine, but to make a GOOD KNIFE!!! with properly reduced grain, and hardened and tempered working areas, you'd better have your ducks in a row.
You want help - call me.
Title: Re: Laminated Hunter
Post by: Doug Campbell on February 13, 2011, 08:56:00 PM
Nice job Buddy, and for y'all that aren't aware it's not an easy task to keep everything centered on these things like Karl is doing.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Laminated Hunter
Post by: Lamey on February 13, 2011, 09:01:00 PM
yep real nice Karl,  after etch how did you polish?
Title: Re: Laminated Hunter
Post by: kbaknife on February 13, 2011, 09:06:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Lamey:
yep real nice Karl,  after etch how did you polish?
No polish, Matt. Just clean off the etch with 0000.
Title: Re: Laminated Hunter
Post by: OconeeDan on February 13, 2011, 09:24:00 PM
Karl, do you rush the freshly hardened blade to the temper oven because of the lamination, or because it is 1095 core?
I look forward to seeing one of these at this year's Blade Show.
Dan
Title: Re: Laminated Hunter
Post by: kbaknife on February 13, 2011, 09:29:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by OconeeDan:
Karl, do you rush the freshly hardened blade to the temper oven because of the lamination, or because it is 1095 core?
I look forward to seeing one of these at this year's Blade Show.
Dan
I would say because of both, as the combination creates irregularities.
I do let the blade cool down quite a bit in the tank, I just don't think it would take very much to "disturb" things, and others have suggested it's a good idea to get it tempered some right off the bat.
Title: Re: Laminated Hunter
Post by: kbaknife on February 13, 2011, 09:29:00 PM
Oh, and if you want to see one in Atlanta, you might want to be there on Friday!
Title: Re: Laminated Hunter
Post by: Lamey on February 14, 2011, 09:12:00 AM
yeah i was thinking thats about what was done,  if you sanded with lets say... 800 grit or so,  would that 1095 core "shine" while leaving the 203 dull/coarse?
Title: Re: Laminated Hunter
Post by: kbaknife on February 14, 2011, 09:20:00 AM
Matt, in re-doing a couple of these, there also appears to be some etching going on in the 203E despite the nickel.
If you sand the oxides off the core steel, you also disturb the appearance of the laminate.
I do think you could remove the oxides with some vigorous steel wool and be ok.
Or maybe some rubbing with some polish like Mother's, etc.
Title: Re: Laminated Hunter
Post by: Danny Rowan on February 14, 2011, 02:22:00 PM
Dang,

That thing sold quick,LOL. Beautiful Karl.

Danny
Title: Re: Laminated Hunter
Post by: Toecutter on February 14, 2011, 07:19:00 PM
Thanks Carl, I just may take u up on that in the near future.
Title: Re: Laminated Hunter
Post by: amar911 on February 17, 2011, 11:15:00 AM
That all sounds pretty complex and difficult, but the result sure looks nice!

Allan
Title: Re: Laminated Hunter
Post by: Steve Nuckels on February 17, 2011, 07:53:00 PM
Karl, that's fantastic!  Along with all the other great details I really like the blade profile.

I wish I I had a fraction of your technical knowledge.

Steve
-------
Potomac Forge
Title: Re: Laminated Hunter
Post by: OconeeDan on February 19, 2011, 12:12:00 AM
Karl, can these laminated blades (beautiful) be judged for your MS test as damascus?  Dan
Title: Re: Laminated Hunter
Post by: kbaknife on February 19, 2011, 09:16:00 AM
Dan, the only blade in your MS "5" that is required to be Damascus is the Presentation Quillon Dagger.
The othe four can be switchblades, cord-wrapped Brute De'Forge, whatever.
So, yes, it could be used.
Title: Re: Laminated Hunter
Post by: OconeeDan on February 19, 2011, 10:31:00 PM
Karl, it looks like you are on track!