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Main Boards => Hunting Knives and Crafters => Topic started by: RGK on January 28, 2007, 10:24:00 PM

Title: Starting a new knife
Post by: RGK on January 28, 2007, 10:24:00 PM
I decided to start the knife that I've been wanting to build for a while. I can get blade seconds from the Chicago Cutlery store for next to nothing. The blades are a bit thinner than they should be so I guess that's why they are seconds.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife1.jpg)

This will be lucky blank.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife2.jpg)

I want a smallish blade, around 4 inches long.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife3.jpg)

After a little cutting, shaping and polishing, it taking shape nicely.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife4.jpg)

I want brass bolsters and I had a piece of an old brass bed laying around. I cut a chunk off and hammered it flat.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knive5.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife6.jpg)

The handle will be made from birch bark that I came across a few years ago and saved for just such a purpose.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife7.jpg)

I will stack layers of the bark on top of one another and finish it with another brass bolster and a pin.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife8.jpg)
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: Hunter John on January 28, 2007, 10:30:00 PM
That birch will look great im sure,I dont think I have seen it done before.Thanks for sharing

John
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: 702plmo on January 29, 2007, 12:22:00 AM
keep going I am interested in seeing how it turns out.
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: Bobby Urban on January 29, 2007, 06:59:00 AM
Huh - do you heat treat the blade or do you keep it cool while cutting and polishing?  Cool idea with the bark - I am intrigued?

Bob Urban
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: Shakes.602 on January 29, 2007, 07:15:00 AM
Thats a Good Looker already, and I am anxious to see the Birch Bark Layers myself!!
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: philil on January 29, 2007, 01:01:00 PM
Yeah me too!
Just the other day I wondered about the use of bark for knife/sheath making.
Great idea!
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: JEFF B on January 29, 2007, 01:44:00 PM
hey awesome knife bro cant wait to see end product  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: jeff mccray on January 29, 2007, 08:15:00 PM
Nice work, i would round the tang ricasso junction if you are going to re-harden it.  It should've been rounded at the factory, stress risers are caused by a square juncture there.

Jeff
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: RGK on January 29, 2007, 09:28:00 PM
Thanks for the interest and ideas.

I spent more time thinking and planning than actually working on the knife. I polished the front brass plate and decided to add a little color. I found a broken red window ice scrapper and a piece of white plastic to put on at the beginning and end of the birch bark. I got all the birch bark squares cut out but I still need to cut the tang hole in the rest.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife9.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife91.jpg)
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: TimBow2 on January 30, 2007, 06:21:00 AM
looking good
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: gwhunter on January 30, 2007, 06:56:00 AM
Very Creative!
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: ber643 on January 30, 2007, 07:54:00 AM
Gonna be a good'un, I'll wager.
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: Pete Darby on January 30, 2007, 08:18:00 AM
It is going to be a nice one.  I have a book on building Finnish knives and sheaths that goes into a lot of detail on the birch bark knife and they are great looking.  One day I will take the time amongh my other projects and make a couple.  I just finished an antler handled knife that has a few leather spacers carved to flow smoothly into the brass guard that turned out very well.  I have a couple of other blade blanks I need to haft but first I have to complete three leather projects.  

Too many hobbies/ not enough time
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: TexMex on January 30, 2007, 08:41:00 AM
Looking real good!
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: tpoof on January 30, 2007, 10:56:00 AM
curious to see how the birchbark is going to look finished. Have a feelin its going to be spectacular
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: robtattoo on January 30, 2007, 11:28:00 AM
Looking good! Watch out for the dust from the birchbark, it can really affect some people (runny nose, stingy eyes, coughin' yer lungs up, that sorta thing!)
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: Lewis Brookshire III on January 30, 2007, 11:40:00 AM
I love the way stacked birch strips look. That knife is gonna have some character for sure. You wont see too many like it. It will be beautiful.

Here is a pic of a fly rod grip that I guy I know built out of stacked birch.

 (http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n217/reviveourhomes/Various/Birch2.jpg)
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: nick_the_tinkerer on January 30, 2007, 12:18:00 PM
wow Looking awesome.
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: Mike Byrge on January 30, 2007, 12:44:00 PM
RGK,
What do you use to cut out the blade shape?  

Thanks,
Mike
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: uhdet on January 30, 2007, 03:05:00 PM
RGK, Make sure you cover that blade good while shaping that handle. I usually use a strip of leather down the blade wrapped in black electrical tape. Looking very good. Love the stacked birch.
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: BAO on January 30, 2007, 03:20:00 PM
RGK, are the "seconds" blades available to anyone?
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: Osagetree on January 30, 2007, 05:22:00 PM
TTT

Nice,,, more please!
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: RGK on January 30, 2007, 09:27:00 PM
I finished cutting tang holes in the remaining bark squares. I then placed piece of white and red plastic and two pieces of brass. I'm not sure how I'm going to finish the pummel. I may peen it. I then did a rough sanding job just to get everything even so I can sketch an outline on the surface.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife93.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife92.jpg)
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: RGK on January 30, 2007, 09:30:00 PM
robtattoo , Yes. your right. thanks.

Mike Byrge, A Dremmel tool with a cut off wheel

uhdet, will do.

BAO , Yes. Go to the Chicago cutlery Mfg./store
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: RGK on January 30, 2007, 10:12:00 PM
I am thinking of using tung oil to finish the handle.
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: philil on January 31, 2007, 02:17:00 AM
Looking great so far!!   :thumbsup:  
Did you clamp the bark pieces together?
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: indianalongbowshooter on January 31, 2007, 08:18:00 AM
How about a web address for the blade seconds, did a search and could not come up with anything other then places that sell Chicago cutlery. thanks, Dean
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: jgbennett6 on January 31, 2007, 08:52:00 AM
awsome handle, did you use CA glue or Epoxy to hold the layers together or are you simply stacking them?
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: RGK on February 01, 2007, 08:24:00 PM
I had a little time to rough out the knife handle. I hope to finish it by the weekend.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife94.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife95.jpg)
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: tippit on February 01, 2007, 09:12:00 PM
Nice idea on that stacked birch.  That knife show clean up any trout your fly rod brings in.  Great Job...Doc
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: Jeff U on February 01, 2007, 10:16:00 PM
Well done - I'm enjoying this build along.  Very nice!!!

I'm curious about the brass on the end of the knife.

The one photo (jan 30 9:27pm) shows two plates of brass with the tang extending through.  

The next photo (feb 1 8:24) shows the rough sanded knife with a lot more brass at the end.

Did you add some type of brass cap?

How did you sand the brass to shape with the wood?
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: RGK on February 02, 2007, 06:35:00 AM
indianalongbowshooter, sorry no web address that I know of. You have to drive to Chicago.

jgbennett6, No just the pressure of the pommel.
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: RGK on February 02, 2007, 06:37:00 AM
Jeff U, Yes I added a thicker brass cap and I am using a belt and disc sander with a course belt to remove the material.
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: DarkeGreen on February 02, 2007, 07:46:00 AM
I've only made one knife with a brass cap on the end of the handle. I really like the looks and functionality it provides. I threaded the end of the handle and tapped the brass cap. I'm wondering how you attached yours. Is there a way to do this that is concidered better than others? I think I want to make a couple more and really like the looks of this knife so far. I can't wait to see the finished results.
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: RGK on February 02, 2007, 10:33:00 PM
I finished sanding and polishing the brass so I applied a coat of Tung oil to the handle. 4 more coats and a little polishing and it will be done.

 (http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife97.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife96.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife98.jpg)
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: Jeff U on February 02, 2007, 10:45:00 PM
Beautiful!      :clapper:    

You mentioned that the bark is not glued but is held by pressure from the pommel.

How did you attach the tang to the pommel?

And how did you attach the brass pommel cap?
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: Osagetree on February 03, 2007, 07:40:00 AM
Very nice!!!! Man,,, if that aint insperation.

That's all I need, another hobby!
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: RGK on February 03, 2007, 10:34:00 AM
Jeff, there was 3 holes in the tang (for rivets) I used the last one. I placed two pieces of brass on last (after the bark and the red and white plastic) Then I compressed the stack in a clamp until I could get the pin in the the tang hole. The final brass cap has a hole in the front of it and went over the tang and pin and is held in place with J.B. Weld. (the worlds best epoxy)
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: RGK on February 03, 2007, 03:59:00 PM
I had such a good time making the knife, I decided to make another. I also need to wait 24 hours between coats of tung oil on the first knife. This time I will make a fillet knife. I got my hands on some great steel. I bought(too much actually)150 inches of 1 inch X .035 thick Triple tempered m42 Cobalt steel with a hardness of Rockwell C-69. This material is used to cut hardened heat treated steels and stainless. It's made of Carbon, Tungsten, Molybdenum, Vanadium, Chromium and Cobalt.

I am using an old fillet knife as the pattern
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/fillet1.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/fillet2.jpg)

After some cutting, shaping, beveling, sharpening and polishing. The blade is ready for a handle. Now I just need to figure out what that material will be.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/fillet3.jpg)
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: Jeff U on February 03, 2007, 05:13:00 PM
Keep 'em coming!  

You have talent.  My daughter and I are enjoying watching a craftsman at work.

  :notworthy:      :notworthy:    :notworthy:
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: RGK on February 03, 2007, 06:01:00 PM
Thanks Jeff.
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: RGK on February 03, 2007, 06:24:00 PM
I need to make a sheath for the first knife. I have a thick scrap of tanned buffalo shoulder that will do nicely.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife99.jpg)

I cut it over sized and soaked one half in hot water. I covered the knife with the finger from a rubber glove and some tap to protect it and to make it a little larger.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife991.jpg)

Then I used a bunch of clamps to shape and form the leather to the knife. I don't want to use snaps or ties to hold the knife in the sheath so I want a tight fit.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife992.jpg)

I used a blow dryer to speed up the process of drying out the leather.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife993.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife994.jpg)

In order to protect the inside of the sheath and the future stitching, I will line the inside with a piece of plastic from a milk jug.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife995.jpg)

I will stitch it in place when I sew the sheath.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife996.jpg)
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: Roger Norris on February 03, 2007, 07:26:00 PM
Outstanding build along. Thank you very much!
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: RGK on February 03, 2007, 10:39:00 PM
I sewed the sheath by hand with a stitching tool and a braided thread.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife997.jpg)

Then I decided to add a leather thong along the edge and a couple of belt slots.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife998.jpg)

The knife fits pretty good but it still needs a few more coats of tung oil. The sheath needs a good cleaning and a coat of wax.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife999.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife9991.jpg)
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: RGK on February 04, 2007, 11:37:00 AM
I've some black walnut in the shop so I decided to use that for the fillet knife handle. I will also add a brass finger guard.
  (http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/fillet4.jpg)
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: Over&Under on February 04, 2007, 03:54:00 PM
Great build-along!!!  Grat looking knife too, Nice Job!!!
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: RGK on February 06, 2007, 12:57:00 PM
I had a little time to work on the fillet knife since I am home today. I will use tung oil when I am done sanding.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/fillet7.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/fillet8.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/fillet9.jpg)
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: TimBow2 on February 06, 2007, 03:12:00 PM
great thread
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: Dustin Waters on February 06, 2007, 04:35:00 PM
Im an extremely green newbie to knife building and im having a hard time figuring out how in the heck the finger gaurd and the end cap stay in place?  Maybe im just not reading it correctly or something but for the life of me i cant figure it out.  Sorry to make you answer such a routine question im sure but id like to figure out.  With the windchills at a balmy -15 to -30 there isnt much to do around here.  Thanks Dustin
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: jdupre on February 06, 2007, 06:42:00 PM
By the color of the fillet knife blade, it looks like you tempered it. What temperature did you use? Good work, by the way.

Joey
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: RGK on February 06, 2007, 08:22:00 PM
No temper required. This material is already Rockwell C69.

Dustin, The finger guard can't slide forward because the tang (the part of the blade that is in the handle)is smaller than the blade. The small slit in the brass guard is just big enough for the tang. Look back at some of the earlier pics. The wooden handle keeps the finger guard from sliding back.
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: jdupre on February 06, 2007, 11:57:00 PM
69 Rockwell seems mighty high. I would be concerned that the edge could be a bit brittle. But,man you'll be able to get a wicked sharp edge on that thing.
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: Dustin Waters on February 07, 2007, 01:07:00 AM
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: jindydiver on February 07, 2007, 04:57:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by RGK:
No temper required. This material is already Rockwell C69.

Do you mean 59c?
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: RGK on February 07, 2007, 07:23:00 PM
69C
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: RGK on February 07, 2007, 07:24:00 PM
After 5 days and 5 coats of tung oil (it really soaked in) The Birch Bark knife project is finished. I hope to finish the Walnut fillet knife tomorrow.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/knife9992.jpg)
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: RGK on February 08, 2007, 06:00:00 PM
The tung oil is dry and the Fillet knife is done.

  (http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/fillet92.jpg)
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: jindydiver on February 08, 2007, 06:30:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by RGK:
69C
There are no steels available that have any application in knives (except machine knives)that can achieve a hardness about 66 rockwell, and every one of those must be tempered (and loose at least a couple of points) before you can use the steel without it cracking. Certainly if that fillet knife can bend without breaking it can't be harder than 60C

Technical details aside, you have done a great job with both those knives   :)
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: Shifting Shadow on February 08, 2007, 06:45:00 PM
RGK, how did you cut the blank down to size?
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: Jeff U on February 08, 2007, 09:04:00 PM
:notworthy:    :notworthy:    :notworthy:
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: RGK on February 08, 2007, 10:20:00 PM
Shifting arrow. I use mesh reinforces cutoff wheels in a Dremmel tool. I go through a lot of them to.

jindydiver The knife is pretty flexible. It is M42  Triple tempered Cobalt steel with a hardness of Rockwell C-69. This material is used to cut hardened heat treated steels and stainless. It's made of Carbon, Tungsten, Molybdenum, Vanadium, Chromium and Cobalt.
I am not a metallurgist. I may have been sold a bill of good but it sure is hard stuff. The sparks are white as snow.
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: jindydiver on February 09, 2007, 02:00:00 AM
Thanks

High Speed Steel makes a great blade. I have used bandsaw blades and power hacksaw blades for knives and they work a treat. I have never seen it work at 69C though, so I suppose I have seen something new   :)
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: RGK on February 12, 2007, 09:40:00 PM
Still too cold and snowy to take the long bow out so I will make another knife. This one will be a small skinner. I used another Chicago Cutlery factory second blank and will reshape it into the skinner.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/skinner1.jpg)

I cut it out with a Dremmel tool and then ground, tapered and polished the blade.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/skinner3.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/skinner2.jpg)

The blade is 4 inches long and so is the handle. I like knives that are about as long as my index finger so they are easy to handle and I can get a good feel while working with it.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/skinner4.jpg)

I want to use an exotic wood for the handle. Time to go shopping.
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: Shakes.602 on February 13, 2007, 04:37:00 AM
I am In  AWE  of The Talents there are on this  Fine Web Family  we have going on!!
  Awsome Knives, and a Good  "How-To"  on the Sheaths too!! This One Will Be Archive Material!!  :readit:    :thumbsup:  
      Good Job on  ALL  the Knives!!
 I have said it Before, and will say it again:
           ONLY ON TRADGANG!!   :notworthy:
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: ber643 on February 13, 2007, 07:13:00 AM
Great stuff here - knew it was gonna be a winner and turned out to be a winner with some winning mates (sheath too).
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: ringo64 on February 13, 2007, 07:51:00 PM
what do you use to polish your blades?  i make some blades from old files and such but have a hard time finishing the blades.
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: RGK on February 13, 2007, 08:36:00 PM
A 6 inch bench grinder with a cloth polishing wheel and rouge. Before that, I use a couple grade of emery.
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: RGK on February 13, 2007, 08:37:00 PM
I got a piece of Ipe ( ip-pay) wood for the handle of the skinner. This is some awesome wood. It is a Brazilian hardwood that is very dense. Pine has a specific gravity of .3 and a weight per cubic foot of 38. Walnut's S.G. is .48 and weight of 44 Lbs per cubic foot. Hickory is .8 S.G. and weighs 50 Lbs per cubic foot. Specific gravity is based on a constant. That being water. Water has a specific gravity of 1 so the above listed woods float on water. Ipe has a S.G. of 1.08 (it sinks) and a weight of 70 Lbs per cubic foot. It also has a class "A" fire rating ( it won't burn ) so it is more like concrete than wood. Carbide tools are recommended. LOL. This wood is neither rare or expensive since it is being used for decks and docks because it outlasts green treated lumber. It has a reddish brown look with shades of green tint to it. The sawdust however is a yellow/green?????? This is going to be a neat handle. Another interesting thing about this wood is that it requires no finish because it is so hard. I will still use tung oil to bring out the grain and to give it some sheen. The Number 1 reason I want to use it is becuse I got some for free and I am cheap. LOL

For the record. The hardest/heaviest wood in the world is South African ironwood. Found in the West Indies, it has a specific gravity of 1.49 and weighs up to 93 pounds per foot.

This concludes today's class on fun wood facts.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/skinner5.jpg)

yellow sawdust.
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/skinner6.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/skinner7.jpg)
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: RGK on February 14, 2007, 08:30:00 PM
I got the handle on the skinner tonight. The Ipe is nice to work with.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/skinner8.jpg)

It sands nicely to.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/skinner9.jpg)

It is a very nice looking grain. I will use it again.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/arrows/skinner91.jpg)
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: elk ninja on February 14, 2007, 08:52:00 PM
Dang RGK, I am really liking all of these knives a lot, thanks for the build along!  I am working up a couple similar knives and I like the ipe and birch a lot, gonna have to try that next batch!
Semper Fi,
Mike
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: RGK on February 14, 2007, 09:05:00 PM
Ipe has become my new favorite wood.
Title: Re: Starting a new knife
Post by: DarkeGreen on February 15, 2007, 04:54:00 PM
cool stuff, I'm ready for the next one.  :)