Trad Gang

Hey folks,  I am in the middle of working on this Elm Flatbow and was thinking of possibly heat treating the belly and bending shallow recurves in it, then backing it with deer leg sinew and covering it with Garter snake skins.
Its 67" long 65" nock to nock,,draw length @ 27 1/2"
I posted this on Paleoplanet but for some dang reason can't get pics to load!
Anyone have any input here?
All will be appreciated!
Thanks for looking
    (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3426Small.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3422Small.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3412Small.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3422Small.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3406Small.jpg)

It was originally going to be an unbacked self bow,thats why its so long,,, I started this project prolly 3 years ago, now I look over my supplies and have lots of deer sinew sitting there as well as snake skins so I thought, why not,,
What you folks think?

Anyone do any heat treating?
It would be my first shot at it, as well as sinew, as well as snake skin, only made self bows till now and am ready to tackle something different!
What say you?

That's a little long if'n you're going to sinew it. Probably 60-62" for your draw length would be max. IMO. And "think" width also when you're sinewing. Sinew and glue is quite heavy so try to reach a happy medium both ways. Heat treating will certainly help reduce your width and sinewing even more. What poundage are you after?-ART B

Thanks Art!, The poundage really doesn't matter too much, something over 40lbs to about 60lbs, in that range. Its what I usually shoot and it gives me alot of freedom  :)
Its at 1 3/4" at the fades right now tapering in straightlines to 1/2" at the tips. If I cut her down I might put pin nocks on and keep some of the width at the tips? yes, no?
Anymore thoughts on the heat treat, heat belly only?
or both back and belly? I'm thinkin just belly.
Input,,,, comeon guys don't be shy....    :)

Nice work!

Can I see a picture of the profile of the handle?

Thanks,
F-Manny

Here's the handle, grip. A few different snaps!

  (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3430.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3432.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3428.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3427.jpg)

Still waiting on comments.....

You just want to heat treat the belly of the bow. You got a cull made up for this? You're probably going to want to set you limbs back several inches at least. Keep your retangular limb shape until you treat the limbs (helps prevent lateral movement also). Keep a slight radius on the belly of your limb as well. You can flatten them latter if you want but for now this will help prevent cupping. Keep your tips light, say a 1/2", always a good place to start you know. I assume your bow is floor tillered, so after you heat treat your bow (going to be stiffer) check your limb bending again and reduce your limb from the sides this time to reduce it's width somewhat. Good luck.-ART B

Thanks Tpoof, I like it.

F-Manny

Sinew is way too much work even on a bow that is designed for it.  To add it to a long bow like this would be wasteful and probably make you never want to do it again.  Now if you cut it to 62", heat treat the belly and add 2-3" of reflex, you may be in business.  If it were me, I'd finish this one like it is.  It looks really good.

Well, here it is a few days later and some major changes in the Elm bow!
The 69" flatbow is now a 58" semi recurve!
Chopped the tips off (that hurt for abit) and that threw the tiller right out the window!
Retiller,to 28" and biuld this caul and heat gun heat treat the belly till she just wrapped around the form. ( it was way easier than I thought it would be) I let it cool and took it off, even put it on the tiller tree and pulled it, it gained quite a bit of weight, and I only pulled it a short ways.
Still thinkin on the sinew, see what happens,,,
Thanks to all those who gave input!   :)  
  (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3436Small.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3439Small.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3443Small.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3444Small.jpg)

That's a good looking piece!!! Let's see more with some string on it!

Here's a couple of pics, they didn't turn out too good as there is not enough room to take a pic in the narrow hallway where I tiller.
Those big curves sure open up but they seem to come back right where they were.
I think I'm going to try to sinew this bow and see what thats all about! This bow is ending up to be kind of a teacher to me the way its changing. lol
flatbow, semi-recurve, sinew,
hopefully not firewood!   :D    (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3448Small.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3446Small.jpg)

You did a nice job but unless you sinew it, I suspect the recurves are going to straighten themselves out and then likely follow the string some.  It is now a perfect candidate for sinew.

Well, here's an update on the Elm bow.
Wanted to do something a little special with those pin nocks, found a broken pool cue and glued on a couple chunks, doesn't look too bad! ebony I think

Started on the sinew backing as well, hard to believe it took as much as it did, I got three good layers on now. That sinew is amazing stuff, from a white slimy bumpy mess to a hard amber covering, its really something else!
I was wondering though on if I should wrap some of the recurve, where the bend is the greatest, don't want it to pull free.
It may stiffen the curves I'm thinkin but after all this I would hate to have it fail when it would be so easy to fix now.
Wondering if any of you's have wrapped the tips or have thoughts about it
  (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3451Small.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3450Small.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3459Small.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3471Small.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3477Small.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3453Small.jpg)

awsome, u shoo it yet???

Here's the latest! Glueing on the Garter snake skin.
Had these frozen in the freezer for about 8 years, thought they would be spoiled but 2 out of 3 are fine.
This project is comin along nicely.   :)  
Thats for the interest and input!   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3523Small.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3535Small.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3540Small.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3542Small.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3550Small.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3551Small.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3552Small.jpg)

Man yer applying sinew AND snakeskins in your KITCHEN on the TABLE!!! THAT'S IT!!


Now it's MAN LAW!  :readit:  My HERO!  :archer:

hey man that is an awesome bow you made there. i hope it shoots good for you  :thumbsup:    :archer:

Well folks, she's done!
Ol Manyfaces is complete!
I'd like to thanks all those who veiwed this thread for their interest as well as those who gave suggestions,ie: John Scifres, F Manny,Art B, Osage tree. !( thanks guys for giving so freely! a rarity in todays world, much appreciated)
This bow was a new venture for me and I'm happy to add that the road was a smooth one and the finished product is just beautiful and a real joy to hold and shoot!
I put her on the scales yesterday and she pulled 44lbs @27", a bit lighter than I hoped for but she pulls smooth and seems quite snappy in shooting.
Put on some Bobcat paw limb silencers as it was a bit loud on the loose but now she hardly makes a sound!The colors of the paw match the dark of the skins and the tan match the wood just awesome!
Tied up a new B50 Dacron 3 ply 15 strand string in black, brown and yellow along with mink tail silencers, they match the color of the skin and wood almost perfect.
The finish is polyurethane, 4coats of gloss followed by a satin coat to cut the shine some.
The grip is from calf lacing that I used after I put a solid piece of leather on then took off as it just looked too plain!, the lace looks much better with the scales from the snake skins.

Now if I can just get some decent weather!!! lol
Thanks again all!
tpoof   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3555Small.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3570Small.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3574Small.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/ManyfacesbotlimbtipSmall.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3588Small.jpg)

A few more  :)   ;)    (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/ManyfacesbracedSmall.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/DSCF3584Small.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/Manyfacesfulldraw2Small.jpg)   (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/tpoof_01/ManyfacesfulldrawSmall.jpg)

Thanks once again!
tpoof

Man, that bow turned out sweet! You got be loving the Elm! aye?

That is a sweet bow.  Man, I need to finish teh ash flatbow I have started in the basement.  WELL DONE!!

Good looking bow there, Love the braced look.

Beautiful. See stuff like this makes a guy think he could do it too...LOL. Great work. Truly impressed with the talent of some people on here...

WOW!

ttt

haha!!
wow!!!
how long can an all wod bow be strung before it starts to wear out???

More that you think  :bigsmyl:

like???

How big were those garter snakes?  I have had a lot of garter snakes in our gardens the past few years, but I doubt any were big enough to do a bow limb.  Nice stuff!!  I have never been too big on the looks of snakeskin backings, but the gartersnake is different and slick looking.  i could go with something like that.

Excellent job! That is nice!

what kind of grip material is that???

Very NICE tpoof..VERY NICE!

Thanks guys for all the interest and kind words! appreciated much!
Those Garters were about a good 3'-4' long, they were big females, never knew it at the time, as I was making the vent cut up, little baby's were falling out! a buddy had them under his concrete steps there must have been hundreds that spring morning!He was terrified! lol.They just made the 1 3/4" width! They sat in my freezer for almost 7-8 years before I finally used em, doh, 1 was freezer burnt bad!
The grip is calf lacing you can get at any leather shop, my uncle was a leather smith (used to make saddles for the Calgary Stampede)and in his passing I aquiered all his stuff! I rather have him around though!

I find a wood bow has a life just like a human, treat it rough and without care and they won't last too long!,treat em kindly and they can remain with you forever.
A wood bow is built to take the stress of long brace times as well as built to take whatever drawlength they were created to.
Mostly when a wood bow is built it has an owner waiting for it, and is built to his particular draw so in essence a wood bow can last a very long time, you just have to take care of it! Its best not to pass it around letting all your friends draw it back, a different draw can actually break your bow, a self bow is about as custom as you can get, treat it right and it will treat you right! ;)

QuoteOriginally posted by tpoof:
Those Garters were about a good 3'-4' long, they were big females, never knew it at the time, as I was making the vent cut up, little baby's were falling out! a buddy had them under his concrete steps there must have been hundreds that spring morning!He was terrified! lol.

Yup, those are some big garters. We also have a lot of red bellies, but they get not much more than a foot long.  It would have to be a pretty small bow for them!!   :smileystooges:    I may have to keep my eyes out when in the garden this year.  Who know!!

Hmmm...  Might want some horn on the belly now.

todd smith

where in SK do you live?

great looking bow!!  :thumbsup:    :thumbsup:

I only string mine when I am using them ,but leave the strung most of the day and have had some for several years with no ill effects.
They take a little more care than a figerglass
bow but will last a life time.
  Pappy

Very,Very nice--Make sure and send the full draw pics to Bernie for his Trad bow full draw pages--Bone  :D

Very,Very nice--Make sure and send the full draw pics to Bernie for his Trad bow full draw pages--Bone  :D

east central  :)

Ya, haha, Bernies already got er done!

todd, that horn is still beyond me  :)  so far:)
I'll be checking for compression problems,,

Lookin at the other  thread about snakeskin crested arrows I think a small Garter skin spiral wrapped around the shaft could be awesome,, good for those smaller "red bellies"  :)  food for thought,,, :)