Trad Gang

I'm getting interested in a Tamerlane bow. I notice some have a side plate with a kind of brush rest, some have the same but also a kind of peep sight on the plate - maybe a different plate
And then there's a type of stabilizer contraption which seems to be adjustable and maybe also a sight.
Without been too much of a bother, does someone have pics of these and can you explain how they work and what their purpose is?

I'd like to understand this before I go out looking for one.

Thanks very much in advance to any/all who answer this.

Sam

Some of the Tamerlanes are routed for the Bear Premium Bow site.  Some actually have the sight and some have a plate to cover the hole.

The site apperture itself tavels up and down to adjust for different distances,  They also adjust in and out for windage adjustment.

Many nowadays ae found with the target plate vut the apperture is missing. If so, they are hard to find.

Ypu can go to the auction site we must not name and see many pictures of both the site and the plate. Both have the brush rest on them and a nylon set screw for adjusting the arrow plate in and out for fine tuning.

Many people shooting these bows in tournaments opted to take the site off and just use the Hoyt pro rest which was the choice rest of the day.

Hope this helps.

My '66 had the plate and I used a Hoyt pro rest and shot barebow.

Thanks
I did look at the place with no name and see what you mean. So if the flat plate is installed, that means it was put in place of the site.

Why can't you shoot these bows off the shelf?

Also what kind of arrows did they shoot with these bows? Is there a special competition arrow?

Thanks
sam

I am the proud owner of Reddogge's 66 Tamerlane. It is 35# and loves Easton Blues 1816's.

Is this Bear's only bow of this type? Is the Patriot also considered a target bow? That does not seem to have the big heavy riser but they do use a sight.

I thought the Easton Blues were a child's arrow? What makes an arrow a target arrow for a target bow? I also notice that some use a different type of fletching, shaped like a C. Looks like a 4" or shorter feather. Almost like a stiff Flu Flu arrow

Thanks
sam

Bear had a whole line of target bows named after tartar warriors....Tamerlane, Temudjin, Tartar, etc.  The Tamerlane was top of the line.  I'm glad Migra Bill is enjoying my old Tamerlane.

A target arrow usually has the little nub points rather than field points.  We shot aluminum back in the day(shiny aluminum as that was the only thing offered) and little fletching, probably 2 1/2" long.

I believe the old X7 Easton blues, not to be confused with the new XX75 blues, are a high quality arrow better in quality than the old XX75s.  They are more brittle and more difficult to straighten.

At one time, tournaments were shot with wooden arrows.  When Easton aluminum introduced the 24SRTX shaft, it was the end-all for tournament archers...at the time.  When the XX75 came out it was the standard.  Then came the Easton X7.

These different shafts were based on the tolerences for straightness and exact matching weight.

In the hands of an accomplished archer, any bow will shoot the exact same with the same arroow...every time.  The key is to have a set of exactly matched arrows.  Exact weight, diameter, spine, drag, and any other factor effecting the arrodynamics of flight.

Once the 24SRTX was introduced, bow manufactors began to come out with the finer tuned bows and acessories to make their equipment the best that could be.

The top bows on the line were the Bear Tamerlane, the Golden Sovereign Lord Mercury, the Hoyt Pro Medalist, and the Wing Presentation.  While there were many others, these were the most popular.

What made the Bear Tamarlane one of the top tournament bows was not so much that it was the "BEST", but that Fred Bear was the master marketer.  Bear Archery sponsored some of the best shooters of the time to make sure there product was prominent in the winners circle.  Shooters like, Frank Gandy, Gentleman Jim Pekering, and others.  Frank Gandy shot the first perfect 300 score in indoor archery.  He did it with a Bear Tamerlane.  Pearson sponsored Ann Clark with Her Lady Mercury, (one of which I now own and my wife shoots). I think she was the all time best ladies champion in NAA and NFAA.

Bear was the first to come out with the stabalizer, and the built in "Premier" sight. This stabalizer later evolved into the cushioned Omni-coupler system.

Ben Pearson had the Mercury cushion in the Lord Mercury, along with the mercury filled stabalizer.

Hoyt had the Flight Torque Compensators on their Pro Medalist.  Hoyts' greatest contribution, in my opinion, was their Hoyt Pro Flex Rest.  I don't care what brand bow you shot, you had a Hoyt Prod Flex rest on it. A simple leather plate with a nylon finger protruding.

There were also many other lesser-known bows out there such as the "Dickies Fireball", the "Hit Black Ace" the "Howatt DelRey and Palamar", and many others

As the better equipment began to evolve, the top shooters started to become prominent.  As the sport began to gain in popularity, the money prizes began to surge.  It is the old saying ..."Money Talks". And this was true for archery.

What it all meant was that any person could buy any equipment they wanted, or could afford.  All things being equal in equipment, it came down to the human factor.

There was popular saying back then.  "The bow is not as important as the man behind the bow"

I hope this has shed some light on the developemnt of tournament equipment in the '60's, the Golden Decade of traditional archery.

If there are any errors stated above it is probably a product of my growing senility and trying to remember things from 50 years ago.

DAYUM, I'm getting old.

Hey Jack,

Thanks for providing some history and comments in your posting above.  I grew up in the South during that era and missed out on that interesting part of archery since we were poor and I spent more time roving and hunting.

Have you considered a magazine article on the subject?  I'm sure there are lots of archers who would find topics like this interesting.  Learning about the sport's past and history is a big part of it.  Thanks again.

LON

Thanks for the complement, but there are many members here that are better writers, more knowlegeble, and less senile than me.

I just went on a rave recalling things from the past as best I can remember them

Jack, it does not seem that you've forgotten anything. I would agree that you should write an article. This is fascinating stuff. Thanks to Lon and Reddoge also.

So the Bear Patriot was not a target bow then. IT did not seem to have the heavy riser like the Tamerlane.

Interesting stuff for sure.
As I've been looking, I've seen other bows made by Peason, Wing and Howatt some of which you mention above. Seems like this was quite the thing

SAm

The Polar, Alaskan, and Kodiak Specials all evolved into target bows about the same time the Temujin, Tarter, and Tigercat came on the scene.  What you have to distinguish is the difference betweeen the target bows and tournament bows.  The finer, heavier massed topurnament bows also carried a heavier price.  I paid $200 to special order an HC 30 in 1966.  It ended up being too heavy in hand (not draw weight)for me to shoot so my dealer let me trade it in on a '67 all rosewood Tamerlane.  The riser began to split on the '67 so I sent it back to Bear on warranty.  They ended up replacing it with a '68 model.  Now back in 1966 $200 was a nice chunk of change.  I was single and living with my parents so it did not hurt me as much as it would a young family man.

The point is.  Local club shooters bought what they could afford to shoot local tournamants.  The highre price bows were only shot by the really top shooters, rich kids, or people like me that were not so good, not so rich, but didn't have any financial obligations.

The average shooter shot mid range, Bears, Pearsons, Howatts, and wings.  As they got better, they might upgrade to a better bow.  I did it backwards.  I started high and worked my way down.

Sam,
Here's a couple of old pics from the 1970 MD State Championships you may enjoy.

First is me with my '66 Tamerlane
 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/reddogge/Archery/34BearTamerlane.jpg)

A lot of old tournament bows on the rack here.  Mine is on the end.
 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/reddogge/Archery/Stateshoot1970.jpg)

I'm pretty sure the Patriot was a target model produced in '76 on the Kodiak Special press.

I love the start rich and work my way down. My experience exactly also.
That's quite a chunk of wood, Reddogge. Thanks for the great pics. Be nice to go back to those days I bet. Especially my knees would like to go back

I get the difference in the Patriot as a target bow but not a Tournament bow. That's helpful

Thanks very much guys

Sam

Folks shot mid priced bows in local tournaments and area invitational shoots.  As they got better and could compete on the State level they would invest in better bows to increase their competitive edge. When someone got good enough to compete in regional and mayby National level, one of two things happened.  They either dug a little deeper and got a better bow, or the manufactors stepped in and sponsored them to make sure their equipment was in the winners circle.

There were many great shooters that could just not afford the high dollar bows,  multiple sets of perfectly matched arrows, and all the travel expenses associated with competitivr shooting.  That's when the sponsors stepped up.  They would have representatives attend local and area shoots seeking out the talented shooters so they could sponsor them before the competition got to them.  It was a dog eat dog competition for the shooters to rep their lines.

Fortunately I never got so good that I ever had to worry about Fred Bear, Ben Pearson, Damon Howatt, or Earl Hoyt fighting over me,  I guess I was blessed that way.

I did have tje pleasure of watching Rick Gilly and David Hughes in a shootoff on our local NFAA range in Houma, LA.  On the 65 yd practice target they bet a coke on who would miss the spot first. The "spot" on the 65 yd target is about 3" in diameter, They both shot 6 rounds of 4 arrows each before one of them barely missed it.  .  And by the way,  these two guys were shooting bare bow...no sights.  That was impressive.

Must be something to be able to shoot like that.
I guess these guys pretty much did this professionally, but the skill level is awesome

At 65 yards, I'm lucky to hit the target

Thanks
sam

I was fortunate enough to shoot FITA on the College Archery Team in 1973/74. Started out shooting a 66" 38# Bearcat then moved on to a Louis Carrol Tourament Bow (think that is the correct spelling). I was never good enough to make the podium but was competitive and certainly enjoyed the experience. Nice postings here of good days gone bye. Thank You Guy's.....

Larry,  you are one of the old timers I am talking about.

Mine was mostly NFAA, some NAA, and an indoor 20 yd shoot once a year.  That was back in '67 & '68.  I got drafted in '69 and when I got back our club had disbanneded.

Hello again. A Bear Patriot arrived in my mail yesterday. 66" 25#. I get the idea of the difference in the riser and the weight of the bow. Does not feel like a standard 25# bow.

What is a good arrow to shoot from this bow? Has the Bear sight with the plastic arrow rest at the bottom.

Thanks
Sam

What kind of apperture is on the sight.  Like the site on the Premium sight (Hunting site) or like the ones on the Tamerlane Premium target site,

Reason I ask is I just met a guy that picked up a Patriot and it had one site pim but it was like the hunting sights instead of the target sites like the Tamerlanes,

Just curious.

As far as arrows go, you would just pick appropriate arrows for any 25# bow but you have to consider the draw length.  Go to the charts for whatever shaft you like.

In Easton, I would think you would be down to around 1616's or lower.

I'll take a pic later but within the aperture, about half an inch is a red dot pin sight. Still wondering how to use it.

It adjust up and down and in and out. Has a scale on the aperture mount. Looks like it will be fun figuring this thing out. I think I have to line the string up with the pin to make it right.

I thought there was a special arrow like a fiberglass shaft. Will need a small fletch to work on the little plastic shelf too.

Thanks
sam

OK, that is the standard target apperture.  Protect it...those things tend to disappear.  It is very uncommon to see those old bows that still have the apperture.  I need two of them for bows now.

It is best to put a peep sight on the string.  adjust the windage and elevation for the apperture to a specified distance.  At full draw, look through the peep site and set the pin on the target.  Very simple, but ya gotta develope a consistant draw and anchor point.

Jack
Took some pics of the sight

(http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll279/Ssamac/Bowsight002.jpg)

(http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll279/Ssamac/Bowsight001.jpg)

I figured that you have to line the string up with the pin, problem being at full draw the string is past your right eye. How do you do that?

If I put a peep in the string, would I place that by trial and error?

Thanks
sam

I strung the bow and it braced to just shy of 8". I never heard such a noisy bow! Sounded like a saw blade. Almost vibrated. I'll twist the string up more tomorrow and try to get it to the sweet spot. Do people use silencers on target bows?

Shoots terrific for a 25# bow. Except for the noise. I tell you, I can shoot it better instinctive than with that sight. Will take some practice.

Sam

Setting the string peep and thr apperture is trial and error.

To shoot with a sight like that, you need to develope a target anchor.  Pretty much your thumb lines up under you jaw, and you actuall "kiss" the string.  Many tournamemn shooters also used a kisser button as part of their anchor.  From there, I used to let the string touch the tip of my nose.  This gives a three point anchor and aligns the peepsite in line with your eye.  If you tried this anchor style shooting instinctive it is very awkward, but with the sight pin correctly set it is natural and can be as accurate as shooting rifel.

That sight apperture is harder to find than the bow itself, or any bow with the sight alrready mounted.

You can also replace that nylon with a bristle brush rest.  I think I may have a couple if you need one.

Also, be careful not to misplace the nylon set screw.  Those things are near impossible to find.

Good find.

Thanks Jack
I'll give it a try

But won't that be less than full draw on a recurve ??

SAm

Made one mistake

It is the forefinger that lays under thr jawbone, not the thumb

Shot again tonight and did better. Kept most of them on the bag. Accuracy terrible. Can shoot better instinctive
I'll keep messing with it until I get it.

Thanks for your help
I would agree with forefinger> I got there anyway, but getting the eye over the string is a challenge when you're used to concentrating on the target.

Thanks
sam

Here's another interesting thing about the bow:
The lower the sight the further the shot, right
So I'm shooting about 20 yards and I have the sight at about 12 on a scale of 15. (see pic above) So how do you make those 50 yard shots?

And how close do you have to be to use 1? 1 yard?

sam

I found this thread while trying to do a little more research on my 1966 Bear Alaskan.  It sounds like it's a target bow.  It doesn't have the fancy sight like Ssamac's Tamerlane does.  It has the long strike plate with the scroll work, the bear, andthe bristle brush rest.  Also has the factory bushing still in it for a stabilizer.  I'd love to find out any more information on these target bows.

-Rich