what do you guy's think.I know I know your all going so whats he up to today...Nope Denny and I were talking on the ph.yesterday and figureing out what year what mag handle was made.We know for sure the small black plastic bears on the latches were gone by 1972 and the raised plastic button did not come along until late 1972-ish,so that would mean with the bears on the latches its 1972 or before maybe early 1973.And a raised button it was after late 1972-ish early 1973.So what year for sure did bear archery add the upper socket strut ?? 1974 or 1975.If you have one your pretty sure is a 74 75 maybe you could check for us and see if yours has the upper strut.Thanks dudes......bowdoc
I know the original wood risers were officiall 1971, and the Mag riser started the next year, althoug I Think(?) there are some rare '70 wood risers. But as far as catalog years go the wood premi=ered in 1971 and the Mag in 1972. How far off am I?
Ten my next question is the finish on the Mag risers. Originall they waere like a rubbery fuzzy finish, later they went to painted. what were these years.
here's a couple we can start with.bd (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/mags001.jpg)
and then.bd (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/mags002.jpg)
Doc,
why does the 1973 catalog show all T/D latches still with the plastic bears? It's a different photo then 1972, so it could have shown the product as it will be sold, not?
Did the Mag-A ever got "the strut" at all, or only Mag-B and Mag-C ?
The upper strut doesn't appear in the catalogs until the '76 issue. Of course, as Donnie has pointed out many times, that doesn't mean a whole lot. Same pics of bow models appear in 2 or 3 model year catalogs. The C and B show the strut but not the A. The mags(field model) appeared in the '71 Catalog showing the lower latch assy as color matched to the riser. Donnie could answer this but I don't think they were available to the public. It's all super interesting especially if you are into takedowns. I'm not a collector but I do like the takedowns............Denny Shick
I've also looked through the catalogs and in '76 it shows only on the C and in '77 also on the B riser.
Someone who is able to throw T/D parts together to make a pile like above should answer this mystery quick, please.
My Mag-A is not reinforced. Should I been worried about putting my 70# (green 2B) or 71# (red 3) limbs to it? Currently it only has 60# (white 3) and is doing fine ...
How many different colors were they made in? kewl bowz Rain
Bowdoc
Whats the problem here? If a pic taken by Marvin the martian on Pluto helps folks learn about Bear bows and there history then why not post it? Seems to me the history and beauty of the bows many of us love far out weigh whether or not someone is a tradganger.
BTW got to see some of your work recently......really nice job!
I personaly do not like to look at collections belonging to people who do not post on tradgang.What would be thier reasoning for not posting ????????????? bowdoc
I got no objection unless there is a Trad Gang rule against it.
No rule I just kind of thought shareing info makes TG what it is in some ways.I just wonderd why some collecters choose NOT to share info and pics with other collecters and friends.I do'nt mean anything peronal againest any of them.I just figure if we are going to show thier collections and they are alive and well maybe they should come on down and do a little posting about thier own stuff...but for some odd reason did you ever notice most museum curaters and owners of somewhat large collections do not post on TG ever never ever,not gonna happen.So why show pics of thier collections if they are maybe a little to good to post something for the rest of us to enjoy.What would be thier reasoning for not shareing ???? bowdoc
thanks doc! The finish is an "oil based pebble paint", dark gray. It was refinished by archer4ever (Hi Ray :wavey: ). Limbs in pics above are red tips. I have yet to see my first pair of blue tips - in a T/D.
I would really like to come back for "the strut" and you first question: when were the different riser lenght reinforced?
Maybe we can put some serials together - if not already done - to boil down the time frame in which the change was made?!
Mine is A-65xx and for some current e8ay-reason I know that A-8587 has no strut either, but is LH. Would RH or LH make a difference?
Thats a good looking A great profile.Ok here is a little info I dug up so far on the mags.The earliest which do not have the struts have a serial number that would read something like A-04555 after 1972 they would be stamped something like A-4555.They dropped the zero from the begaining.Here's some more info.This was passed along to me a few years ago about the mags.If a shop had 4-5 on consignment,but did not sell them.They would get credit for them.Then they would be restamped and resold as new of which I guess they were actually new.They had just been returned for credit.I will get some pics up asap.I think it will be fun to see what we can figure out.bowdoc
This one was shipped from kinnsey Archery 5-10-71...it does have black plastic bears on the latches but does not have a coin or coin hole,no strut eather.But its for sure a 1971.bd (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/bowdocs/bmag001.jpg)
bowdoc,
If it helps, I've got a gray mag A-handle with no strut, no coin, and the s/n is A03020.
Did some of them not have coins? I don't see anything on mine to show that anything was mounted on it, no holes or indentations.
I'll show my ignorance on the subject here, but when did the mag risers first come out?
snakeeater
Hi Larry yes that would be correct A03020(no strut)no raised plastic button no hole for the button eather ? does your latches have the small black bears mounted to them ?.Anyone have a 1970 and 1971 catalog ? Thats the only 2 years I don't have and I would like to check and see what was offered...thanks bowdoc
Ok here's another little trivia.By 1973 the black plastic bears were gone from the latches and replaced by the raised plastic button.Also by 1973 and please check your catalogs.The latch lock was changed from steel to plastic also.That change came in 1973 also please see pic.bowdoc (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/bowdocs/lp001.jpg)
Don,
It does have the black plastic bears on the part of the latching mechanism that mounts to the riser. Here is a summary:
- little plastic black bears present
- no strut
- I think it used to have the "furry" finish. I got it from Papalapin (sp)so you may be able to give us more information on its age and finish.
- the latch (the little hook that holds the long tab over the end of the limb) is plastic
- no indication of something being mounted on the riser
I will try to post some pictures or email them to you.
Snakeeater
Don,
Here are the pictures of my A-Riser. Sorry I couldn't get the individual pictures to display.
http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/AlbumID=261180753/PictureID=6320204619/a=75357331_75357331/t_=75357331
Field Model Mag handle appeared in the 1971 catalog. The little bears appear to be black; The chrome latches were all chrome, but the other colored photos of the mags show the screw on part of the latch(not the yoke to be the same color(flocking) as the bow. Again, I believe these were for the salespeople and the ones offered to the public were all black. Seven colors were offered but not black. The '73 catalog shows a black A mag but still doesn't list black as an offered color. '74 shows a color change with Bundi Black being offered. Go figure......................Shick
Larry I am thinking your's is a 1972.Still got latch bears and no plastic button.So I'am going 1972.In the 1973 catalog it shows on the right side of page 5.Shows all 8 risers offerd.But as Denny mentioned the yokes were painted the same color as the riser.Which is kind of rare to find those models for some odd reason.And the 1973 catalog still shows the black plastic bears on the yokes..Again as Denny said they may have been salesman samples in black and with painted yokes.Still no strut in 1972 or 1973....interesting bowdoc
OK... Got 3 of um. First is an A Ser # 00382 Black bears, no strut, metal limb locks and a large hole for side plate adjust (Maybe 3/8") When I had this one stripped down it was evident the hole had been drilled off location and it was plugged and moved.
Second is another A ser A06735, raised button, plastic locks, no strut and the same 3/8" hole to adjust the side plate.
Last is a B Ser # B04330.. No strut, raised button, plastic limb locks, and a smaller side plate adjust hole,, maybe 7/32.
Hummmm looks like your first A is a very early model.On the oversized holes,I think some of them got redrilled do to the nylon allen screw for the adjustment.The hole in the allen head got striped out pretty easy.Guy's replaced them with the steel set screw.Some drilled the hole out larger.Number 2-3 risers still has the 0 in the serial number no strut but do have raised buttons.A riser 1 must be 1970-1971-ish maybe ?(black bears steel lock).A&B risers 2-3 late 1972 up to 1974-ish before the strut ???? bowdoc
Pretty sure both of the large holes were factory,, the early one was flocked and had the flock through the hole.. the other was a heavy black finish that I think was factory, but would not swear to it..
Both have been refinished.. Thanks for the insights
(http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp123/marathonbob58/DSC00916.jpg)
(http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp123/marathonbob58/DSC00917.jpg)
Gonna try this picture thing.This is a B mag I picked up awhile back.Serial no. is B-9191, raised button, plastic limb locks, I'm guessin no struts?? The limbs have pink or red tip overlays, 2_10023 on them, A-58"-45#, B-62"-43#, C-68"-39# also. Built in site, adjustable side plate. Pictures aren't that good. Bow is really in good shape. So I have a B handled with no. 2 limbs? 62" @ 43#?? Always lookin to learn more and you guys fit the bill. Bob
Thats a great looking B mag right there.bowdoc
The red C riser has the strut.The green B does not.I have seen all 3 with the struts A's,B's & C's.We'll keep at it.bowdoc (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/bowdocs/mag001.jpg)
Bowdoc, you have a PM.
Hey Doc the real answer to your strut
Hey Doc the real answer to your strut queston is in the 1976 cataloge. Give it a look. It was for reinforsment, and for heavy bows. But the answer will tell you why it happened then. I like the mags they shoot well and take to the hardship of hunting very well. But the wood risers are still the best for old hands and cold weather. Was off hunting so I missed the start of this . Larry
During the past 4 weeks I was able to aquire two Mag risers. In both cases I was more after the limbs though. However, since my wife was yesterday so kind and got through the nerve wrecking customs procedure for me, I finally have the MagB at home also and am able to show both to you:
(http://www.broadheads.de/Bilder/Foren/TradGang/MagC_B_6598_600.jpg)
(http://www.broadheads.de/Bilder/Foren/TradGang/MagC_B_6601_600.jpg)
More details:
(http://www.broadheads.de/Bilder/Foren/TradGang/MagC_B_6602_600.jpg)
(http://www.broadheads.de/Bilder/Foren/TradGang/MagC_B_6603_600.jpg)
(http://www.broadheads.de/Bilder/Foren/TradGang/MagC_B_6604_600.jpg)
As you see, both are reinforced with "the strut" and both are in quite a good shape - especially the green MagB - wich is almost untouched :D Serials are:
B-10695
C-18238
I cant think of using the C for anything. I wonder if the latches hardware would also fit on wooden risers (1990's) as well? I might use it for spare parts ... and to show off with some chrome on 3D shots.
:thumbsup: :cool:
very nice I really like that green...bd
I have an A riser (sn A01931) that I refinished. It has metal latch keepers, no struts, no button and no plastic bears. A small 1/8-inch hole on the right side of the riser for an allen wrench to adjust the screw that moves the side plate. Each latch does have a hole drilled between the mounting screws on the belly side of the bow. Would these holes have served to mount the plastic bears. Would this one be 1972 or a little earlier?
I don't know if anyone is watching this one that is up for auction, looks like a nice B handle outfit in excellent condition.
330299569487
Good luck!
I may have seen that one but I will double check.There are some great buy's on mags right now...bd
Wow! That is a nice one. Why don't all you collectors take your spouses on a Caribbean cruise for a week and I will let you shoot it when you get back. No other way its gonna be in my budget.
I did go back and re-read the auction, the seller does mention rust on the chrome latches so ask questions before you bid.
Does anybody know the excact formular of the Mag-riser alloy? I would guess its a Mg-Al-Zn alloy, but who knows for sure, incl. the %'s of the mixture?!
little revised edition
Okay - this is gonna be hard for some of you. But hey, I dont care! You'll like it or you'll hate it - make your own decission! A while back there was a thread in which pictures where posted of burning bows. This led my imagination. So, lets talk Burning bows - but a little different ;)
I weighted my obsolete MagC and got 1076g, with all other hardware still attached. I estimate the Mg-alloy-content in a C-riser roughly, to be about 950g.
Unfortunately I dont know exactly which Mg-alloy Bear used in the Mag-risers, so I decided to calculate everything (below) as if pure Mg only. Most likely it is an alloy with Aluminum (Al) and Zinc (Zn). But, as Al has more then double and Zn has only a half of the enthalpy, when violently transforming into an oxide, I assume things are pretty much even and I am allowed to get away with this aproximation ...
Atom mass u for Mg is 24.305
Devide mass by u to get mol
=> 950g / 24.305 = 39.09 mol of Mg in a C-riser
Look in the correct charts and you'll find the energy produced during the oxidation of one mol Mg to MgO equals: 601.2kJ
To get from a C-riser to MgO, just light it on one end - and let it burn with a bright bluish flame - into a cloud of white smoke! There will be soon 24232kJ available to brew coffee or toast you some bread ...
24232kJ is the same as 6.73kWh of energy - if you asked yourself the question.
Pure nonsense!?!
Well, anybody know those "survival fire starter kits" - made up of a bar of pure Mg metal? You cut little pieces off with your knife and then ignite those by striking a hardened steel with the back of your knife :eek: if you are inclined to ruin your knife, I might add!
The sparks, however you made them, will light the Mg flakes and their ingrained enormous tendency to connect with Oxygen will make them burn fiercly - even if submerged in water! So, here we have it! The allmighty survival tool, by the means of Mg-take-down-handles to start a fire with - should one badly need a fire to warm up ...
Here a pic from the day beofore yesterday - at minus 5°C, but sunshine ...
(http://www.broadheads.de/Bilder/bowpics/Falk/Falk_TDBno1_6645_400.jpg)
Falk
edit: I had to take some off the mainly wine induced passages in my text above away. Oughh! My head ... :readit:
That is funny,no not your pic.The mag riser buring.I had to also try it myself at one point.I used a C riser and hacksaw blade.I scraped some fileings off from under the grip made a small pile hit them with a striker and it was game on.That stuff is great it almost burned a hole through my garage floor.Wood no its cement.......bowdoc
Just don't inhale the smoke.
I find this thread extremely interesting. Several months ago I acquired a B mag risered bow
and I'm guessing it's about a '74 or maybe older model. It has no strut, a brass colored coin, a small strike plate adjustment hole, and plastic clips. I'm going to attempt to provide pics.
The limbs DO have blue tips....I don't know if they are original to the bow...
Bowdoc...do you refinish these risers? The pics make the riser look more yellowish than they are...it's actually kinda mustard colored.
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i156/win1885-1/Limb1.jpg)
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i156/win1885-1/limb2.jpg)
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i156/win1885-1/riser1.jpg)
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i156/win1885-1/riser2.jpg)
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i156/win1885-1/riser3.jpg)
About the blue tips...it's looks as if the blue dye didn't take on one of them but there are traces that can be seen at the very top of the tip.
I would really like to find a set of #1 limbs in the 43-45 lb range for this bow. Anyone?
Tom I.
Hi guys,
Im looking for an "A" plastic cover sight plate for my Mag handle or make a trade with the sight plate and brush rest.Also looking for the metal (2 screws)side plate.
thanks,
Rich