thought I'd post this out of curiosity...it there anywhere that will take a person Asiatic or Cape buffalo hunting with a 60# hi-performance bow shooting a heavy arrow? I know some that will certainly make Ashby's minimum of 840 grains going 140 fps to consistently get to the offside ribs.
I wouldn't unless I made it very clear that if the shot didn't look perfect to ME, I'd start putting bullets in it. I wouldn't get to hung up on numbers, I've seen a LOT of arrows shot into LIVE water buffalo and I have never had a hunter say that he would use a lighter bow next time. I've seen 90#+ bows with 900 grain arrows, just BARELY get enough penetration on a bull slightly angled away. I've seen 80# bows with over 900 grain arrows NOT make through the ribs on the near side. etc.etc.etc. and these were not with low performance bows. Don't forget that all buff are not the same, penetration tests on cows or immature bulls have very little to do with those on mature herd bulls, which what we mainly shoot where I go. The hide on a mature bull will be three times as thick and the body and bones nearly double.
http://bowmaker.net/index2.htm
go to the bottom of this page...adcock bow, 66# 900grn arrow, passthru on an asiatic quatering away. I'd use my 60#@29" Border if I were to go, but I prolly never will...anyway, just wonderin how many guides would take a person with those specs and what you guys thought...thanks for the reply Rick...Craig
Craig, like I said, I've seen LOTS of arrows shot into water buff and in my experience hunting them with a 60# bow is NOT a good idea. We did have someone kill a buff with a bow in the mid 60's range, but he made a perfect shot AND it was a VERY small buffalo. Just think that your bow is FAR from being legal for cape buffalo and they are on average 350 smaller than a water buff. They made those laws for a reason.
When I posted this thread, I should've asked if the momentum a certain bow produced would be sufficient. is .66 pound seconds of momentum sufficient? how about .64?
Don't know if this is of concern to you but Dave Sosza, who makes the DAS bow, has just put one together for a well known hunter/author who is going after buff in Australia, I believe. The bow is about 65# or so at 31" and he chronoed a 1000+ grain arrow at 180 fps. He is in Prineville, Or. (www.kineticbows.com).
QuoteOriginally posted by Bill Carlsen:
Don't know if this is of concern to you but Dave Sosza, who makes the DAS bow, has just put one together for a well known hunter/author who is going after buff in Australia, I believe. The bow is about 65# or so at 31" and he chronoed a 1000+ grain arrow at 180 fps. He is in Prineville, Or. (www.kineticbows.com).
that will pack some kinda punch!
who's the well known hunter? ya I heard those numbers...I believe em but its hard to ;) .
A friend of mine shot a big water buffalo bull some years ago with a 60# recurve. I think his draw was close to 30". Shot 2 arrows, and both penetrated to the feathers(I have seen the pictures).
He went on this trip with a 80# compound that he planned to use, but it broke down and the recurve was his light bow he had brought to hunt pigs after the buff hunt was over.
The fellow with the new DAS bow would be Doug Chase. As for the performance of the DAS bows (yes, I'm a DAS fan) , my wife shoots one that is 46# at 26" and she shot a 500 grain Beman shaft with a four blade Phantom completely thru a Maine black bear last season. I hope that Dave can get heavier weight limbs for his bows...buff hunters would love them.
G'day guys I just returned home last night from guiding Denny Sturgis and Dale Karch for 10 days on Asiatic Buffalo. As I type this they will be winging their way home with lots of Buffalo stories and first hand info, great video footage and plenty of photos.I know they will be only too happy to share all this with you guys, so I will leave all the stories up to them. As for our camp I recommend 70lb.@ your draw length minimum, 750 grain minimum arrow weight, single blade solid constructed broadhead, DRY SHAVING SHARP,and most importantly PLACED IN THE RIGHT SPOT. I'm sure Denny or Dale will tell you guys all about the size and location of the vitals, size of ribs, etc., on big mature Bull Buffalo.
G'day Mark, I was wondering what bow Doug was going to be shooting his Buff with,the DAS sure sounds interesting. I'll be keen to see how it shapes up against Rik's Howard Hill longbow.
Man,
I sure hope Denny and Dale did well! I was there visiting just before they left and they were pretty pumped. Doug and Rik are pretty jacked up too! I got to visit with Rik a couple of days ago, and he took Dougs bow to him. Seems like lately I've been at ground zero/buffalo central! :)
David
G'day David, Yeh Denny and Dale are top guys and we had a blinder but I'd feel like I was selling them short if I told any of their stories and they have plenty of them. They should be home in the next 24 hours but I think they might want to catch up on some homework first before they get on here.
I hunted with Doug, Rik, Bruce and a bunch of fine looking Llamas for 23 days on Elk last year. I can't wait to see the look on Rik's face when he is 10 yards off his first big Buff. These guys have become good mates and I'm looking forward to their hunt heaps.
I'm home for a week before guiding at our Chital/Axis and Wild Boar camp so I'm looking forward to Denny and Dale's stories too.
I'm looking forward to seeing how Doug's bow performs on our Buff.
Cheers,
Bill.
Billy Bob, glad to hear everyone survived. Looking forward to the stories (soon, I hope).
It wouldn't be fair to compare any bow Doug shoots to what Rik has. Until Rik gets a draw length longer than a little gurls, he won't know the full potential of any of his bows.
I'm really looking forward to August getting here. How's the snake population?
Okay, okay, I admit it, I have a short, 28-inch draw length, but just because Mark's sons can draw my Hill bow so far back that flames come off the fletching when they let go doesn't mean that I'm a gurly guy (that's my story and I'm sticking to it!)
P.S. Doug's new DAS bow is scary fast, in fact, I am sure there are ethical standards that forbid shooting buffalo with such a bow, as they don't stand much chance at all. I am sure I can talk Doug into shooting one with my Hill longbow instead.
David, the questions is....any more of those heavy limbs for us 27" draw guys? :saywhat:
G'day Rik and Mark, I just sent all you Buff hunters an email and a couple of photos to wet your appetite.
Mark you'll be happy to know that there is one less snake on Melville now, as I ran over one last trip. Only saw one other and he was going the other way, they're fairly quiet this time of year. We did see some big "Snapping Handbags" [ crocs] 13 and 14 footers but we were in the boat and they weren't so that was cool.
Rik, mate when you're 10 yards from your Buff and see the size of 'em,I reckon you will draw the "Hill" back to 30 without even knowing it, so you better cut those arrows a bit longer, hey.
We'd better make sure there are no other Buff standing behind Doug's bull or he might shoot through both of them. LOL.
Bill.
Joe,
I'm working on it! My draw is only 26", so I need all the help I can get too.
David
Member me when you get some extras...you can count on an order for the whole she-bang from me when you do.
Not for Cape Buff in certain COuntires!.
Need 84 KE to 94 for Cape Buff or.....
Ph will not take you in Zimbabwe or RSA.
Calculate your KE.
60 pound recurve will NOT give you that regardless of the arrow weight.
I had 84 KE ( not bow weight) with a Compund 875 gr with a 125 Muzzy Phantom and he went 120 yards.
But I had 84 KE at 21 yards.
another thing you need to remember you are shooting or can be shooting through mud .the wimp i am 70# is way out there ---- herb -- a Bunnie hunter
What's more exciting than a high performance buff recurve? not much!
Anybody know what limbs David used on that bow?
(did I miss it?)
I'm assuming it's a DAS "Hunter"? Any photos avail?
Cool stuff!
Extreme Hunter,
I need some help figuring this KE thing. I must be missing something but I do not understand why kinetic energy has much to do with being succesfull with cape buffalo. I have read Ashby's research and it seems he proves that KE is not a factor.... just heavy weighted arrows and broadheads with decent poundage bows. Again, what am I missing?
Thanks
Richie
Billy B/Doug/Rik
Glad to see you guys are hanging toghether and still telling stories. I can't believe Doug would give up his Groves. Will catch you up someday
Harry (Brisbane, Qld & Montana)
Harry,
Glad to hear from you. Yeah, hard to believe Doug replaced his beloved yet horribly camouflaged stable of Groves bows, but man, you have to see that DAS shoot. Amazing!
Send me an e-mail to rik.hinton@gmail.com. Wondering if you might be interested in another Australian adventure, this time for serious boar action.
P.S. Pick up the Bowhunter Magazine 2007 Big Game Special. It has one of my Australian articles you might find interesting.
Rik, I picked up the mag: Good story!