What would you consider to be an adequate set-up for a meat bull (1,000lbs.). I am not asking for the minimum that would do the job, but what poundage, arrow weight, K.E., etc. you would feel absolutely confident with. This is of course assuming that the setup can be shot accurately.
Thanks, Steve
i shot a 1800lb bull. i used a 55 to 60lb bow with cedar arrows and 125gr tips. I would reccomend a little heavier arrows. I hit a rib once and got very poor penatration. The bull didnt even know it was hit. The next shot the next day when I found him slipped between the ribs and had full penatration.
If i did it again I would feel great with the same 55 to 60 lb bow only id use hardwood arrows with 145 or heavier heads. They would do no problem.
Dean
Here is a photo of a customer of mine, Zane Rakes, with a 1000#+ cow. Quartering away with a 55#@27" ACS, 580 grain carbon arrow buried to the nock and the cow folded in 40 yards. I would have recommended a heavier arrow but results are what counts!...O.L.
(http://www.bowmaker.net/campfire/buff1.jpg)
Dang O.L.,
That is pretty impressive with a 55# bow at that short of draw length! :bigsmyl:
Dean, He was concerned about hunting moose with that weight and a short draw, not anymore. He was using a Ribtec broadhead which wouldn't have been my first choice either for penetration, but it did a good job. The arrow hit the off shoulder and the arrow broke internally so he had more there if it didn't hit bone......O.L.
O.L.,
Why do you say a Rib-Tek wouldn't be your first choice? I realize that some don't like the ribs in the ferrule and believe they would inhibit penetration, but after buying some I am pretty convinced they will perform well.
Of course I have yet to shoot an animal with them and always willing to learn something so I thought I'd ask.
I only draw 26" and a 55# bow would be borderline for me confidence wise on elk or bigger. I realize that not all bows are created equal and a 55# ACS may produce way more energy than an XYZ bow at 60#, but I kind of feel like the more poundage I am pulling without sacrificing form, the more I am compensating for these puny little oompa loompa arms! :bigsmyl:
DimondD, Oh the RibTech would be fine for deer, hogs and such but it did the job so you can't beat that. The bigger the critter and the lighter the bow, the smaller the broadhead should be. Look at the "bird" points the Indians used, those were for bison. He was going to use the Grizley but was having trouble getting a good edge on it and switched to the Ribtech at the last moment. Personally I would have used a 3:1 broadhead of some kind on that much meat!...O.L.
190 Ribteks are as close to 3:1 as is available except Grizzly and some junk heads. I shot thru a moose with a 60# longbow and a Rib-tickler. Don't worry about the ferrel and if you do, then fill it in with glue, but it really is a non-issue.
Steve, Oh I agree..If you're packing enough horse power, not a problem. Those that can not shoot 55+ pounds and or have a shorter draw length should err on the caution side and smaller 3:1 heads do that....O.L.
Steve,
I bought some of the 160s and 190s. Those dang 190s look like they belong on a spear! :D
That is a BIG 2 bladed head! :scared:
By the way, I just bought some carbonwood 4000s and I need some extra point weight to bring up the arrow weight and to get them heavy spined things to fly right so I am going to experiment with the 190 and a long alum. adapter.
If it flys good, I am going to try this combo for elk this year.
Ribtek tells you to use the long adapters with this head but the only steel adapters I have are the short ones. Would these work with the Ribbies, or does anyone sell a long steel adapter?
I have no experience on game over 200lbs, but I have a trick for smoothing out the ribs on a Rib-Tek. After I have set the head initially I dab on a little extra Ferr-L-Tite and hit it with a hot air gun on low. This blows the glue in little waves and smooths it into the valleys between the ribs. Aim the gun in both directions front-to-back and then re-check for squareness. Makes a nice smooth bond. It also reinforces the attachment. I stump shoot with mine and have never had one pull off when attached this way. (As with any metal head - wipe the inside with a Q-tip dipped in acetone before gluing up).
Stumpkiller,
I have put them on with 2 ton epoxy and filled up the ribs with a popcyicle stick. To tell you the truth though I have never lost one without doing it and I don't personally think the ribs will inhibit penetration the way they are.
Your way would sure be easier on a guy if he ever wanted to get the head off I'll bet! :D
american bison , Just how dangerous is this game to hunt , just wondering what so dangerous about it... I need to be educated never hunted it ...curious????mark#78
unfortunately i have not had the opporunity to hunt really large game. have shot a couple of close to 300 pigs and had no problem. because my shoulder sucks and i wanna do this for awhile i hunt with just over 50 lbs. to compensate i shoot a really heavy carbon arrow. 712 grains to be exact. i put a 100 grain steel insert in a 125 grain wensel woodsman and load the entire length of the shaft with rubber aquarium tubing. it flexes so does not affect spine. shot lots of critters last year and it channeled thru em all.
bob
Mark
From what I've read, it seems that for no known reason they'll charge you. They seem really tame but apparently they will just snap out, and come after you. That's what I've understood. Who knows. Maybe we need an experienced bison pro to fill us in. :D
Joe IM as slow as that old ketsup commerical ...lol Id be in trouble....marko
Hey guys,
We raise bison and "harvest" a few in the field. Some people call it hunting but even though ours are semi wild there's not much challenge to it. I've shot a 1200# bull with my 55# BBO longbow, cedar shaft, and 125gr head. thru the heart and he was down and out in 7 seconds, one other guy shot his thru the lungs with a wheelie bow and it went about 70 yrds.
I've had lots of experience with these guys and would not trust any buffalo, they are extremely unpredictable and dangerous.
Be careful out there,
Doug
In Yellowstone park, more people are attacked by bison than any other animal. I talked to a bowhunter who shot a bison and it did a flat out charge on him and into the 4" tree he ducked behind. Fortunatly that was its final effort. I like the 190 Ribbies and use them on some of my wooden arrows, that I can put a long taper on, which they must have. In my penetration tests, they did well, but just not quite as good as the 190 Grizzly and that was with the ferrules filled in with glue. They are much easier to sharpen though. Rick
Doug , I would break out my old 68# with either 160 0r 190 gr broadhead....oh yeah and Id be having another arrow on my bow real fast like ...If you have one charging you where would you put the second arrow?....mark#78
Mark, if he is straight head on to you, you really don't have much of anykind of shot, unless you are using a .375. If he is quartering on, you CAN put an arrow into the chest cavity, by shooting just in front of the onside shoulder. I would never try that on an unwounded animal, but I did finish off a wounded buff that way. Rick
Yea Mark that'd probably been smarter but that Woodsman sure did a good job. As far as the second arrow you probably should be more concerned with finding a tree or rock or truck or something to get behind. One second thought you better be thinking about that before the first arrow.
The one I shoot this year will be with a knapped Yellowstone agate head. Gotta try it.
I got caught 200 yrds from the truck last year when trying a stalk on antelope. The herd was a half mile away when I left teh truck but the big herd bull decided to investigate I guess. He got between me and the truck and we played cat and mouse for an hour and a half. Believe me my heart was doing some thumping the whole time.
The first thing I did when I got home was go put my .44 mag in the truck. I couldn't imagine how I'd have stopped 1800# of muscle my stick and string but I was sure ready to try.
Doug
Doug , Man nevres of steel ...I just didnt realize how wild the buffalo was man!...that got to be cool....Rick Yeah , Quater away shot the right way to go....Imagine being charged by one wow!....out running one , no I dont think so...lol.....cool topic...Mark#78... the biggest thing I had charge me once was a big momma hog with teeth....it will get ur juices flowing ..lol....Mark #78
Bayou,
It's not necessarily that their wild just very unpridictable, very big, and very fast. There probably isn't a one of ours who isn't wearing scars from "playing" with his buddys.
Don't know about those nerves of steel either, I was plenty scared and those hogs can put the hurts on you quick enough also. I used to love going to TX and chase them, just too far away now. :(
Doug
Rick is right. Bison kill/injure more people in Yellowstone/Grand Tetons than anything else. Usually a foriegn tourist who thinks the park is a petting zoo. Many stories that start out with "after placing the young child on top of the buffalo for a picture......" and end with a puddle of grease.
When we were out there, the most impressive animal to me were the buffalo in the wild. Awesome.
This one died of rock poisoning. 60#BBO, yelowstone agate head and chundooshaft, 18" of penetration. Went between the ribs on entry and stuck in a rib on the far side after passing thru the heart. He was down for the count in 15 seconds.
Doug
http://community.webshots.com/photo/95671588/98720673rCGXZg
http://community.webshots.com/photo/95431524/98033434omNkby
Hi gang,
I recently shot a 6 year old bull buffalo.
I used a 60"60#@28 checkmate longhorn
"flatbow". I was shooting a 550 grain
brested tapered cedar shaft and a 160 grain
magnus 2 bladed point. It was very affective
for 32 yards the point slipped between the
ribs and I was able to get both lungs. It was
important to me that the two bladed point went
between the ribs, I don't think the result would
have been as good with a 3 bladed point..??
The big guy weighed 1900 pounds and droped like
a rock after 40 yards. Shoot Straight,4fletch
:scared:
Guys...A buddy and I are looking to do bison hunt this coming year. Hopefully late February.
Any suggestions on places? References?
Free range hunt...Henry mountains-Utah
I've been looking for a free rnage BISON hunt for years. The Henry Mountains are one option, only problem it is one of the Once in a LifeTime" draw hunts. If I put in for 50 more years I do have a chance of getting drawn. There was also the Pink Mountains hunt in BC, but from what I heard it went way down hill after the first couple hunts. I was pushing the Yukon to legalize bowhunting for Woods Bison, but they turned it down again with some ridiculous excuses. At this point anyway they are still cosidered endangered and cannot be imported back into the states. They did however let some big name muzzleloader hunter film his hunt and legalize THAT after the fact. Looks like they just don't like bowhunters in the Yukon. Rick
Well. We got a cow hunt lined up. S.Dakota the first weekend in March. Actually won it on e-bay. The guy tells us that only half of his bow guys connect and they are wheel bow guys.
He has 5000 acres. We'll see what transpires.
Good luck on your cow hunt :bigsmyl: ,I'm jealous as h@#l!
I'm heading out with Boob and this will be my first time shooting at bison. I'm working on a life size card board cut out to practice on. What do you recommend for shot placement area? Shoulder crease?
Brian,
I recommend shooting a little lower than
anything else you hunt. The bison spine is
very low about the middle across their body.
I shot mine behind the front shoulder, his
mane "the woolie hair" is a perfect line that
gives you an idea wear to slide one in. I got
lucky took both lungs, just make sure that you
shoot a little lower than normal.
Shoot Straight,4fletch :thumbsup:
Guys, Doug Campbell. I got a couple questions for you guys that have been there and done that.
Do they see color?
Do they have a good sense of smell and will they run into the wind, or don't it matter to them?
There are four of us going. Hunt as a group and stalk/set up ambush?
Just shot three Bison last Saturday, two bulls and one cow as a part of a herd managment project. As soon as I shot the first bull, the second bull was right on top of him ramming and mauling the bull big time. A second shot put a stop to it right away. We had planned on taking both bulls from the start but didn't excpect to have to do it so quickly! It's natural of Bison to attack a herd member when it is mortally wounded, my best guess is to leave the wound animal behind for the predators in order to protect the rest of the herd.
The cow was an easier hunt but still had a little trouble from a younger bull (4-5 year old).
If you're hunting for meat, you don't want a trophy bull! The best bison to hunt for meat is a cow between 4 to 6 years old.
Have fun and be carefull!
Steve M.
Have to agree with Steve on the meat aspect although we've eaten lots of 2 to 3 year old bull and it's been great. If you have multiple bulls around they'll almost always "tenderize" anything that goes down. It may be as Steve suggests, makes sense to me, they can get extremely violent and aggitated. Saw a bull punch his horns completely threw a downed cow one time, very impressive and will give you a whole new respect for these critters.
Scott is right also the vitals are very far forward and a little lower than most anything else your going to be shooting in this country. I like to place the arrow tight behind the shoulder and about 3" above the "elbow". This should get you lungs and the heart. I like the heart shot best as they can go a long ways on a lung shot. Especially with a few other bulls harassing them.
Don't hae any idea about seeing color but they can definetly see better than most people lead you to believe. Anything inside 80 yards you better be moving slow. I don't think there is a thing wrong with thier noses either.
Hope you can make some sense of this, and be careful out there.
Doug
Thanks for the info. 3 weeks to go and we'll be chasing bison :D
-Brian
Good luck brian and Bob. Let us know how it turns out. Who all are going with you guys? john
Brian and Boob,
Good luck on your hunt boys.
Alaska has a free ranging wild buffalo herd....actually a couple of them. Goodluck drawing though! No pref points so it could happen if you were born with a golden horse shoe ;)
Thanks guys, we'll give you a full report when we get back.
John, Bob and I are heading out with Roger Garrett and Brian Boyd. I think you met Roger at Denton.
-Brian
Well we're back from South Dakota. We were told that the bison were free ranging on 5000+ acres when we booked the "hunt". We found that the bison were "free" ranging on 5000+ acres but the property was broken down into smaller sections by barbed wire and access gates.
We did see 2 bison walk through the barbed wire into another part of the property but I would not consider them free ranging. We all killed bison and gathered our own meat but I would not do it that way again.
If you are looking for a way to gather your own meat with a weapon then this would be for you. If you are looking for a truly free ranging herd on a large piece of property, I suggest that you check out an outfit carefully to see if it meets your needs or try to draw a tag for one of the remaining wild herds in Arizona, Utah, Alaska, or Canada.
Overall, we had a good time. I just wanted to be clear on my perspective and not make it sound like something it wasn't. For $800, I got all the meat, the head and hide, and a unique experience. I saw more ringneck roosters during the trip than I have my whole life in Pennsylvania. Their whitetail deer herd was very impressive as well.
-Brian
(http://img28.photobucket.com/albums/v85/halbleib/bison.jpg)
Brian.
Well done, pity the circumstances weren't up to your expectations but at least you all got a kill and all the meat, heads and hides. At the end of the day it's not bad value for money, I think so anyway. Here in Scotland, when we take on a Deer Hunting Lease, the deer are free ranging but there are always fences somewhere, it's part of the "Modern" way, difference is that deer can jump over while Buff seem to just plough on through. Would love to hear a little more detail, nice photo too.
Lilhunter -
Alaska actually has four huntable herds and you are right they are truely free ranging on 100's of thousands of acres. A hunting partner of mine drew a couple of years ago and got one. My SIL hauls buffalo hunters each year on the Copper. So we get some of the meat. They are amazing critters. Fast moving, can disappear, and put the sneak on you. We have a fish camp (fishwheel)right in the middle of one of the herds that we also haul tourists out to. The buffalo come right through camp. I've watched them swim the Copper, climb extremely steep hillsides, and faced them off. We put in every year for 3 of the herds and have yet to draw.
Tatanka!
(http://www.bigdummys.com/movies/dances-with-wolves/images/33.jpg)
Martin,
That is excellent, how did you do that?
I found the pic while looking for another pic to post in this thread. (http://tradgang.com//noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006941)
Brian,
Kinda figured that's what you'd run into. There's many opperations around the country running the same way, including us. Certianly not fair chase but you can "harvest" your own meat. Lots better than harvesting it from your grocers freezer in my oppinion.
Enjoy all that meat, properly cared for and prepared it's good stuff :thumbsup:
Hey guys we killed an old bull (9yr, pushing 2000#) this week and I was amazed so thought I'd pass it along although he was shot with a 30-06.
I had a shooter wanting an old bull and this one has been out numerous times so decided to kill him. David has shot two bulls before so knows where to hit em. The first shot was at 60 yards into the neck behind the ear, the bull just shook his head and started running. He put two more into him while I was dragging my little 30-30 out with no effect. I slapped a couple at him in the head and neck area and stopped him but he was still standing. We circled and David put another one into the neck and the bull finally went down. We went and got teh truck and drove up to the bull and he got up again. We each jumped out and shot him again from 20 yards, this put him down for good.
I just stood there shaking my head at the toughness of this guy. I know an arrow thru the lungs would have worked quicker and probably a bullet too. When the bull was processed we found three of the slugs, two '06' and one 30-30. All were mushroomed beautifully, the '06s' were in the neck and hadn't even penetrated to the spine. The 30-30 was flattened against his forehead, again I just couldn't believe it.
The hide around his neck was close to an inch thick and even down on his belly was 1/2" thick. Just a little post to kinda show ya the tenacity of these critters, now time to go shopping for a bigger gun!!
Hey Doug, just so you don't feel to bad, my mate in Australia got flat out charged by an unwounded water buffalo COW this year and shot her point blank SEVEN times with a .416 Rem. Mag. before she gave up and walked away. The first five shots were all in the head neck area. He was guiding a bowhunter at the time. I have seen .375 H&H bullets flatten out doing no damage to skull behind the ear.
Dang Rick, think I'll stick to bison. An arrow thru the lungs will put one of these down pretty quick and ya don't have to use an 80# bow.
I'm sure hopin I don't have to go to that big of a gun either. Them big loud things are just plumb obnoxious!