How many of you are like me and when you hit your anchor point, (mine is middle finger in the corner of the mouth) immediately release?
I have not had any luck with a static release or holding for a while. I seem to creep up when I hold or draw. I also get a better release when I pick a spot, draw, anchor and release. Ken
Ken i don't hold either draw pick a spot and let it go i shoot tighter groups especially at longer ranges!
with my saluki longbow i can shoot 4 to 5" groups at 20 yds consistantly snap shooting,with my first arrow yesterday at 42 yds i drilled the kill zone!
i too have trouble getting off the string after holding and shoot left i know from not pulling thru the shot no apologies here i shoot quick lol
I pick my spot, draw and hold the anchor for 2 maybe 3 seconds before releasing. I find after shooting alot I do have a tendcy to creep forward slightly.
I pick a spot, then when I hit anchor I concentrate on my spot for 2 to 3 seconds, I then slowly complete expansion drawing another 1/2 to 3/4 inch and that triggers my realese, I had very bad target panic for 20 some years, and shooting like that cured me, I am very accurate with this shooting style, I'd say 8 inches @ 25 yards, I shoot 3 under, and have been shooting in this manner for about 6 months, I started by blind bail shooting in my basement over the winter. I learned most of what helped me after finding this site last fall, it has been a real God send! It is great fun once again to be able to shoot without target panic! :)
Draw, anchor and release is pretty much all one motion for me. I anchor the middle finger in the corner of my mouth. I release as soon as I get to anchor.
All one motion fairly quick like a snap shot or slow snap shots works to about 20 yd. for me, but after that I do more of a very slow draw, anchor short of full draw, and then expand for the shot. I never really stop, but just make the last part very very slow and about 2-3 seconds. If I stop and try to start again for the shot I tend to be inconsistent on release follow-through.
It seems like my anchoring and releasing time is directly proportionate to how far away the target is. It is not the case on every shot, but for a large majority. I just know if I try to force it and shoot fast, I generally miss.
I draw get everything together and then release..takes about a 3 second hold at least.
How quickly you release after hitting anchor is not important. What is important is going through all the steps of your shot, in order.
Getting something out of order like releasing before completely hitting anchor will mess up your shot.
It's also better to not relax when you hit anchor. Relaxing results in creeping. Imagine drawing your bow to anchor as blowing up a balloon. When you hit anchor, don't let any air out of the balloon.
Some can do this quickly, others need a second or two to get things collected. Neither is right or wrong, just what works best for you.
Ken I'm with you amigo!! If I point at a dog in the neighbors yard...I just do it! I don't take extra time to refine my index finger's location. I partially draw a bow and finish the draw with my bow arm fully extended and eyes locked on target, all in one continuous motion...that way when I find anchor, release follows approximately 1/2 second later, This is a very accurate and consistant form of shooting for me. I watched Fred Asbell's video and he does this as well. With bow shooting..it's whatever works best for you...but for me to hold and try and somehow "refine" my aim would definately feel alien to me. I'm already staring right at my target and arm is pointing there accordingly.....if it works....do it.....my opinion.....john
some do well with snap shooting . but i think most of us do well holding a little bit.
I do....
Snap Shooting (http://tradgang.com/videos/tg/m27.wmv)
QuoteOriginally posted by rnharris:
i can shoot 4 to 5" groups at 20 yds consistantly snap shooting
Have you ever shot a 300 round, after 60 arrows this give a pretty good indicator of what kind of groups an Archer can shoot, I can shoot 4" groups if I shot 2 or 3 arrows at 20 yards but 300 round under tourney conditions tells a totally different story about my grouping ability.
Snap shooting seems to work for this short range 3D\\Hunting game but I've yet to see anybody do it with any success in an IFAA 3D\\Field arena where the 3D's are set to 60y and Field targets to 80y
---------------------------------------
IFAA World\\European Field champ, Fita 3D world champ
Guys......lets remember, this is a HUNTING site, not target archery. I've had to 'clean up' several posts. Also, make sure you read the posting guidlines at the top of the forum.
Also, if you have to slam another method to build up your own....find another forum to post on. It wont be tolerated here.
Thanks.
Funny about the reminder that this is a hunting site. Recently I've had to remind myself that "hey, I don't shoot tourneys, I shoot animals" because I was becoming concerned with my 30-40 yard shooting abilities, i.e. I can't shoot very well at all at those distances! I'm a hunter and I'd rather be good at the dirty work up close so I went back and instead of trying to shoot 40 yards I'm practicing 20 and under but from all sorts of crazy positions. Wife thinks I've lost it.
Sorry I didn't read anything in rules about being a Hunting site and your header says the following
"This forum is dedicated to all aspects of the act of shooting longbows and recurves"
Hunting or or Target shooting, it's still about putting an arrow exactly where you want, being able to do it consistently will just make you a more effective Bowhunter. :thumbsup:
Some of the greats of Bowhunting were also Target shooters, Bear and Hill.
I had a wheelie guy stop and tell me that he could shoot tighter groups than me blind folded. so, I had my neighbor toss a penny for me at 10 yards. The penny buzzed up and over my garage and landed in my other neighbor's gutter. The wheelie guy said "big deal that was just one arrow." When i gave up my FITA form and started snap shooting with longbows, I began eating all kinds of wild game, regularly.
This is what's posted on the front door since the site's birth....
Tradgang.com is 100% totally devoted to traditional bowhunting. The 3 goals of Tradgang.com are as follows ...
1. To offer a public access website for those that love the sport of hunting with traditional archery equipment - i.e., selfbows, longbows, and recurves.
2. To create a friendly atmosphere to all. Dedicated to the discussion of all topics that relate to traditional bowhunting.
3. To support traditional bowhunting and archery manufacturers, vendors, services and organizations - good folks that have their hearts and souls poured into the sport.
Expect to be respected if you decide to join the gang, because the rule of respect is held highest of the few rules that apply. Tradgang.com has a zero tolerance for disrespect directed to anyone. If you want to disagree, then please do so in an adult manner. Debate is healthy, as one sword sharpens another, but it must be done in an honorable fashion.
I have found that I shoot a lot better when I come to my anchor ( tip of my middle finger in the corner of my mouth )and use that anchor as a starting point for the expansion portion of my shot sequence. Once I hit anchor I keep steadily expanding and focus entirely on the spot on the target I want to hit. The string release just happens. I shot a 345 out of 400 on a 3D course this weekend, it would have been a 365 except for two complete misses on small targets where I failed to keep my focus on the spot I wanted to hit all the way thru the shot sequence. I can't snap shoot well at all.
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:
Tradgang.com has a zero tolerance for disrespect directed to anyone. If you want to disagree, then please do so in an adult manner. Debate is healthy, as one sword sharpens another, but it must be done in an honorable fashion.
Well Bowhunting isn't allowed where I live, not really my fault.
It was never my intention to show any disrespect, I think to suggest to somebody to try 300 round isn't bragging,knocking them down or showing disrespect, claiming 4-5" groups is a bold statement specially when snap shooting is added at the end of that statement, 300 round is a good test of consistency and focus and even with my experience and ability I can find 4-5" groups only on good days.
As a tourney shooter of 24 years, Coaching over 10 years, I feel I have a lot of shooting experience to offer people on this site.
idont snap shoot when i hunt either ,sorry
How many animals were hunted this year at Compton? Im sorry but this sight is sooo much bigger and more vast than just a hunting site.
Iv read and been a part of sooo many discussions that never originated as hunting threads .how many of us hunt and don't shoot at any other time ?I know you don't Terry nor 99% of us . We are all here to advance in our art and target archery is very much a part of bow hunting ever was and will ever be . How else will we ever become efficient and ethical bow hunters. We discuss "archery" every day! as its the root of bow hunting . Its the choice of instrument we all have chosen.
Terry ,I mean no disrespect .... but this response has hit a nerve with me . Similar to "what is trad or not.? " as u pointed out in rule #2( Dedicated to the discussion of "all" topics that relate to traditional bow hunting.)
If target archery isn't related to bow hunting than we have lost perspective on how we refine our learning and skills for "bow hunting".
I've seen other threads that discuss 3-d and F.I.T.A. ect... and average points per target or group sizes that weren't shut down or even reprimanded and many other discussions that weren't directly focused on hunting ." per say." though you have chosen to reprimand zetabow for posting within relevance to the original post for what may have seemed boastful , ok i give you that. but how many of the thousands of discussions have had someone sort of boast or self accomplishment in them ? weather to validate our advice or reject the advice given by others?
I'm sorry Terry but" this" reprimand I feel was uncalled for . and felt a little to much like a manager disciplining someone in a inappropriate way , or miss use of authority.
As a whole I love and appreciate TRADGANG.COM and I firmly believe in rules and some form of parameters for this site but I feel this just did not apply.
Sincerely
Eric
:banghead: :coffee: :coffee: :dunno:
If you hold onto a boat's rudder, so tight as to not get one degree off course, you are in for a fight with the rudder.
If you let the rudder wonder a few degrees, one way and then back a few degrees, you will maintain course and enjoy the ride.
My 2 cents.
Matt
Sorry about hiring a nerve. If u read the front door AND the off topic rules posted on the powwow you will.see what I am referring to. Also, my comment was not based on just this thread but a pattern of post by more than 1.
We have always allowed 3D but don't do fita Nfaa or flight shooting. Never have since we started. We don't do target archery here.
Rage, armchair quarterbacking is just that.
I'm just trying to keep the forum on track. I'll post more when I get off this cell phone.
QuoteOriginally posted by zetabow:
Well Bowhunting isn't allowed where I live, not really my fault.
Not TradGang's fault either.
Ok....I'm back on a computer now.
Please remember these are typed words and can be easily read or taken wrong so read this like one of your friends is talking to you. I was on my cell earlier...and its a pain to try and type on that thing.
"This forum is dedicated to all aspects of the act of shooting longbows and recurves". YES, the execution of the shot....not formats or venues.
I know some of you do not know the history of this forum, the folks that have been removed over the years, and what this forum is really about
Its about simplicity of learning to shoot properly. Its about each of us teaching and learning how to execute a lethal hunting shot. And its about not cluttering up this effort with theoretical/hypothetical/egotistical ranting.
I'm not accusing anyone of anything, but every year someone will waltz in here and try to 'take over' the forum. In the past we have had 'my way or the highway' coaches.....his way or the highway students of coaches....self proclaimed experts, forum 'parrots', and target shooters that never even shot at an animal....all of which would start touting all sorts of 'target' lingo and slamming others and other's methods. And posting all sorts of pics of tourneys and target bows with all the wiz bangs and videos as well. Most times I let those folks get too far down the road, and I've learned its best to give fair warning if I see what appears to be a problematic concern rising. Again, I am not accusing anyone. There just has been a pattern as of late by several posters, and I don't want it to get out of hand. And no, I'm not mad at any of them.
I am NOT knocking target archery, its just that this site and forum are not about the target stuff, and its been that way since day one. I sure don't have a problem with someone who is a target archer contributing, but do have a problem when they start discounting others and other's methods.
I'm just trying to keep it on track as intended....and hope that you all can understand that.
:campfire:
i totally understand ... ive not been around and seen those people try to infiltrate the site with gastopo attitudes,. i just felt you were a bit premature in your correction ,though ,that was just how"I" felt . i think you'r a great influence and mentor "if you will" here on TG. and i appreciate what you do here .though im sure i know 1/10th of what you do.
i just want people to be able to share about thier archery accomplishments and perspectives and sometimes get a little personal as well .
i feel we r a band of brothers and much can be brought to the tables for all to take part of. i just didnt want that to be strangled /restrained to much. not at all saying there shouldnt be rules or structure:
i wouldnt want people talking about thier new puppy , the arguement they just had with thier girlfriend and thier wife, or needle point .
i think we r on the same page just recalling different past occurances and seeing the same words from a different perspective and thats ok .
Terry
thanks for not biteing my head off .and takeing the time to read ,process and respond in a pleasent and mature manner .
you have no idea how much that means to me !
my respect for you has grown tremendousely as a result...
sincerly
Eric Borrowdale
Well said Terry, and you too Eric!!! I have watched a lot of Howard Hill video and he appears to be a kind of snapshooter as he releases his arrow almost as soon as he reaches anchor. Does anyone else see this?
Thanks Eric.....yes...the boat was just drifting a bit and I just gripping the rudder tight to get it back on course to use Rage's analogy.
NW....yes, Hill was a snap shooter, as was Bear and Pearson.
And, if you want to see proper alignment demonstrated by Hill...check out him shooting at the rock thrown up by his friend....and freeze it just before release...and compare it to the form clock.
I appreciate everything target archers have taught me. I like shooting targets. I like shooting distances. I really like shooting. I hold at anchor mostly, but not to aim. I can't aim. Something wrong with my form or my eyes. I hold low and right, and guess what, I normally hit low and right. When I am not shooting very accurately, I try to speed it up to snap shooting or just short of snap shooting.
I like to shoot at moving targets. I haven't tried bluerock yet, but milk cartons with a few rocks inside and a throwing rope are a lot of fun. Its pretty close to snap shooting. I call it draw, anchor, and release. Not a lot of time for anything else. I'm hoping it helps me learn to shoot faster, and I hope it will allow me to take some birds on the wing.
I watched Terry's video, "Snap Shooting". I thought Terry was aiming with his eye over the arrow, and it appeared to me that he had very, very good form. I am envious. I am naturally competitive. Do about anything to shoot more accurately. Its just my instinct. So I think I'm an instinctive shooter. Just wish I could figure out how to aim. In some fashion or another I need to be able to aim just like Terry, only while moving, (following and then pulling ahead on a moving target).
Terry,
I think this is the vid you are talking about. I think even more amazing then the shot is the fact that "Howard" throws up the rock then shoots it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDfbHMyo-NA
But you are right, it is a perfect picture of alignment and form.
This is a dangerous thread. I just went outside to my backyard archery range. Tried to shoot faster. That was okay. Then I tried to kind of lean into the shot and look down the arrow the way it appears to me that Terry does. That didn't work out too well for me. Now I have one less arrow to shoot. I think I hit the pipe on the neighbors fence. Bent it pretty good. I think aiming is a myth and you all are just playing with me.
Too funny bshaver.......I use to hold a bit longer myself, but evolved into that style. It takes more than one arrow to do it! :biglaugh:
I also think you are subconsciously aiming.....i.e. aiming instinctively.
NW, ...yes, sorry, it is Howard that throws it....I new he had a friend there and I haven't watched it in a while.
Thanks for the support Eric and explanation from Terry, it's not my intention to brag or put any other style or aiming method down, only to help those who wish to become more consistent and accurate.
Any reference to Fita is purely 3D which is very close to IBO format (all close range 33y max)
shoot straight
If you watch the Hill videos in super slow motion, it appears that although he is snap shooting, his release is still aim motivated, other than timing motivated. He seems to micro adjust just before releasing. A timing motivated release is a problem that I need to always watch out for.
Maybe I should screw a level and a lighted sight pin onto my Schulz, or one of them lazer things that can set off an alarm to tell me if I am on target. Nah, my neck, fingers and shoulders hurt just thinking about it.
Terry,
I think your grip on the rudder is just dandy.
Thanks, Captain
Thanks Rage...
Zeta....no worries.
:campfire:
alright group hug.. :campfire: :coffee: :coffee:
first of all I love this site and all it has to offer. T.G. is right when he says its tough to get you point across using type words. With that being said I am strictly a bowhunter and use a 3d course and stump shooting to hone my skills for the upcoming season. I use to snap shoot and shoot awesome. However, I've started holding my anchor for about 1 second which has helped me control my shot. Other than that the longer i hold my anchor the worst my shot is. If the shot, and sequence, feels right roll with it.
QuoteOriginally posted by pavan:
Maybe I should screw a level and a lighted sight pin onto my Schulz
I think if you screw anything into your Schultz there is a strong chance Howard would roll over in his grave, since john was his favorite bowyer.
I used to snapshoot, like John Schultz does in "Hittin' em like Howard Hill", but i had terrible consistancy issues. I hope to get my technique grooved in to the point I can go back to a quick release, but I think that will take time and lots of practice.
I had a timing release issue that went along or contributed to my target panic. Since I have completely cured myself of the dreaded TP both left and right handed, I do practice various holding times at different positions, just in case I need that control. I have found that a nice smooth draw that gives me time to make fine tuning with a near immediate release, gives me the best accuracy in hunting conditions and I am maintaining a consistent draw length.
I snap shoot and stay consitant at 25 yards, I wont shoot over my limit while hunting. :archer2: