On this site, I have heard some say that their point-on range is out to as much as 60 yards , and others as low as 15 yards. I know that a 3 under release generally shortens point-on but I am curious of any other ways to shorten point-on range? ( It seems to me that a shorter point-on range would be advantageous for under 25 yard shots.)
I shoot split and mine is about 35 yards. I'd say 3 under should lower it 10 yards or more.
The reason I have a long point on distance (65y) is because I have a short light arrow 450g POC and 27.5" arrow and draw it to the shelf, I do this as a draw check to ensure consistent draw each shot, I seem to manage ok with shorter distances so it's never been a problem.
So longer, heavier arrow would reduce my point on by quite a bit, I've tried a 570g and 28" arrow for a 50y point on but feel more comfortable with the original setup, old dog and new tricks lol
Steve,
What kind of bow are you shooting and draw weight? Even shooting a very lightweight arrow (400g)and 29", out of my OL Adcock ACS CX which is relatively fast my Point on is 45 yards. Could it be that I shoot 3 under? Not that I am going to change to split, since I like 3 under. THanks in advance,
I'm shooting and English bow that was specially designed for me in 2003, Blackbrook Zeta double Carbon.
The bowyer told me a few months ago that one of his customers in Netherlands tested the ACS and Zeta with a shooting machine and said no significant performance difference between these two Bows. Price is about the same so it's down to personal choice more than anything else.
I'm shooting Split finger, middle finger level with corner of mouth.
Anchour position can make a big difference.
My 3 under anchour gives me a Point on distance of 35 yards with my heavy EFOC hunting arrows.
The same arrows but shooting split which is only one finger width lower than with 3 under,I get a point on of 50 yards.
3 under with my ultra light wheight 8% FOC target arrows an my point on is 50 yards.
I've never shot those arrows split fingered,but I'd guess they'd be hiting dead on at around 60-70 yards.
What all this means to me is that when shooting our style of 3D I'm never shooting beyond my point on,so my margin of error in my tradjectory is very slight,and my over all sight picture doesn't change very much at all.
In the hunting field with my heavy arrows,the same narrow sight picture applies but the distance stays under 35 yards.
I'm looking at getting totaly away from both 3D and IFFA type field archery in the very near future,and joining my local FITA club,,,,I belive that with my current target set up I should be able to find a repeatable chin anchour point and extend my point on to 90 yards or more with little effort.
Anyway,,,arrow speed,arrow length,anchour point,FOC,they all play a part.
Steve and Earth,
Great inputs! THanks and it gives me something to look at while at the range practicing.
I have read and heard from some "old timers" that the construction of your face has more to do with your point on then nearly anything else. How far your eyes are from your mouth (because we usually use our mouths as a reference in one way or another). :goldtooth:
Anchor point in relation to your eye is what determines point-on distance. Simply put, it is the intersection of your line of sight-which is straight and the trajectory of your arrow-which is an arc. All things being equal, the further you move your anchor point below your eye, the greater your point-on distance becomes. For targets closer than your point-on you need to hold the arrow point below the target and for targets farther than your point-on you hold above. I am a hunter and casual 3D shooter, and my average shots are 15-25 yards. I shoot split finger, but with a very high anchor: cocked thumb hooked behind my cheekbone and arrow nock about 1/2" below my eye. Point-on is 18-20 yards. Really simplifies "hunting range" shots. Thats what works for me after 30+ years of archery.
I have a goofy question, when you are talking point on range are you talking about putting the arrow tip, or field tip on the target? Is this what they call Gap shooting? I have never understood what is being talked about for sure, I always pic a spot and focus on that spot on the target, while at the same time allowing my sight to notice the tip of the arrow, but I don't focus on it at all, nor have I ever paid attention where it is in relation to the spot I am picking. If using the tip of the arrow and putting it where you wanted to hit on the target, wouldn't it make the shot go way to the left for a right handed shooter? Being from the middle of no where, all I have to go by is what I read and understand, and there is alot that I read but don't understand...Ha! :)
Yes, putting the arrow tip on the place I want it to hit, that would be my point on distance. Varies for each bow I have, but with my form being less canted than most it does not go left. Unless of course I "pluck" the release or do not hit my anchor correctly (form breakdown). I shoot instinctive out to 30 give or take .. and for longer yardages I guess you would call it gap shoot. I know that my arrow will drop x number of inches at 50 yards, etc...
I have found that a longer arrow brings your point on closer to the target. Three under does also because the closer your nock is to your eye the closer your point on is to the target.
Thanks ren sarns, I looked at my tip this eve and put it where I wanted to hit, don't ask me what I'm doing wrong, I didn't realese, but if I would have I am guesstimating my point on distance would have been about 475 yards, Ha! :)
Maybe its because I anchor my thumb knuckle to the back of my jaw bone, my eye is about 3 inches above the arrow shaft, I'm not sure it that is the reason. I am still very accurate out to about 25 yards. I will have to keep playing with the point on for a project and see what I can come up with at longer distances!
Ncsaknech1ydh.
To find your point on start shooting from about 20 yards and work back 5 yards at a time,one arrow for each step.
It doesn't matter how you aim,just keep a casual eye on where your arrow point is as you work back,and sooner or later your going to get to the distance that your arrow tip is right on the spot your trying to hit,,,,that's your point on distance.
My guess is that if your shooting split with a corner of the mouth index finger anchour,that distance is going to be around 50 yards.
Actual bow draw wheight has never played much part in it for me,,probably because I've usualy stuck pretty close to 10 gpp for most of my bows.
Cheers,an have fun.
My point-on is right at 27 yards and I shoot 3-under. I like that distance about as well as any for my point-on.
QuoteOriginally posted by sputterman:
I have found that a longer arrow brings your point on closer to the target. Three under does also because the closer your nock is to your eye the closer your point on is to the target.
Absolutely. This is why I have just made up some flu flu arrows that are 2 inches longer than my regular arrows, so I can maybe hit aerial targets better at closer ranges than my point-on distance of 27 yards. Makes sense to me.
I think the reason point on is so much different from one shooter to the next is the way one shooter sees the point of the arrow in relationship to what he's aiming at. Individual form.
This is something I have been struggling with latley, I do some 3D shooting & with my split finger, pointer finger to eye tooth & thumb locked under jaw anchor, my point on is somewhere around 70 - 80yds I figure. It gives me no gap or aiming reference at closer yardages, at 20 yards my arrow tip is about half way to the target in the grass somewhere, I don't focus on my arrow when I shoot but I do see it in my peripheral vision & feel it would help to have it a little closer to the target on hunting range shots.
The guy I shoot with also shoots split finger, but his arrow is right under his eye & his point on is around 25yds. He whops my arse regularly.
I have no desire to be able to shoot over 30yds really because my main goal is to hunt, I want to shorten my point on & still shoot split but I can't for the life of me find an anchor point that both works & feels good at the same time.
Sooooooo, my buddy Troy said why don't you try shooting 3 under, I said sure I'll give it a try, I really like the feel of looking down the arrow shaft & it brings my point on to around 30 yards without changing my anchor point.
I just don't know about shooting 3 under, it seems like most hunters shoot split finger, & I think I've read on here somewhere that your bow has to be built to shoot 3 under??????
I really like how it looks & feels & I think it would make me a better shot having that point at least somewhere near the animal I'm shooting at.
Going to give it a try for a while......hope it helps.
Any hunters out there shooting 3 under?????
QuoteOriginally posted by HUNT 24/7:
Any hunters out there shooting 3 under?????
For about the last 40+ years. Never had a bow tillered for it until the last couple years. It never made any difference before, and probably doesn't make an difference now. :^) Just tune your bow and shoot.
Over the years, I've made my point-on 30 yards with every bow I shoot, no matter if it's 60# or 40#. That way, I don't have to compensate from one bow to the next, or from 3D to hunting, etc.
QuoteOriginally posted by Jim Casto Jr:
For about the last 40+ years. Never had a bow tillered for it until the last couple years. It never made any difference before, and probably doesn't make an difference now. :^) Just tune your bow and shoot.
Over the years, I've made my point-on 30 yards with every bow I shoot, no matter if it's 60# or 40#. That way, I don't have to compensate from one bow to the next, or from 3D to hunting, etc. [/QB][/QUOTE]
This is good to know Jim, I am shooting a HH Wesley Special 70# @28" & I think I've read on here that it is supposed to be shot split finger??? BUT, when I shot it 3 under the arrows flew great & hit the mark more often than before, I love looking down the arrow, it just looks awesome.
I am going to to try it a couple weeks & see how I make out. :archer2:
Hunt 24/7
The buck in my avatar was taken shooting 3-under, but I'm by no means an expert shooter. I've recently tuned by bow with longer arrows so my point on is 20 yards, my current effective range that I limit myself to. Doing so has given me more confidence at that distance. I will however shoot split finger with a higher anchor point similar to yours if I need to really cant the bow or moving targets, or just having fun. I know, I know it's not "consistent" but it works for me.
When you're using the arrow point to aim the shot, you either need to focus on the arrow point or on your target. Most hunters focus on the target, so the arrow point is a blur in their peripheral vision. This is the way Howard Hill aimed his bow. There is also a style of aiming where you focus on the arrow point, and the target is a blur. This is how they taught me to shoot my rifle in the Marine Corps (well, we didn't have arrow points, but we did have a front sight).
But whichever one you choose, if you accidently shift your focus, you will miss the shot. It is an easy thing to do as you draw your bow and the arrow comes up into your vision to shift your focus to the arrow, or maybe some intermediate point between the target and the arrow. If your method of aiming is to focus on the target, and you lose that focus for any reason, you will miss the shot.
I always have my focus on my spot, but I do see the arrow point as a blur in my vision. It just helps when that blur is somewhere near the target, not in the dirt half way there.
QuoteOriginally posted by HUNT 24/7:
Any hunters out there shooting 3 under?????
Yes, there are bunches of us!
QuoteOriginally posted by ishoot4thrills:
QuoteOriginally posted by HUNT 24/7:
Any hunters out there shooting 3 under?????
Yes, there are bunches of us! [/b]
Right on, I know there sure are alot of 3 under target shooters, I shot 3 under yesterday & it is an instant improvment for me.
QuoteOriginally posted by HUNT 24/7:
QuoteOriginally posted by ishoot4thrills:
QuoteOriginally posted by HUNT 24/7:
Any hunters out there shooting 3 under?????
Yes, there are bunches of us! [/b]
Right on, I know there sure are alot of 3 under target shooters, I shot 3 under yesterday & it is an instant improvment for me. [/b]
Good for you, bro!
I shoot split and keep my arrow weight around 8.5 gpp. My poa is 58 yds. I tried 3 under for a couple weeks and my poa was around 23. Gave it up for that reason -- I like shooting longer at targets.
Your anchor point is the control over poa. The only way to change is move your anchor point, change from split to 3 under, or go to a different bow or arrow setup.
Once you figure out your poa it will probably just become another bit of trivia unless you start shooting long shots.
Thanks Earthdog, you answered my question about the poundage part. I shoot 3 under, 50#s@27"s,with 500-520gr. arrows and my point on is around 26yds. So many folks I know have a 45-50-55 point on. I just figured it had to be my short draw or light poundage. Thanks again!
I just tried to establish my point on range, and stopped at forty yards because my target backstop is too small and I have a cornfield behind it. @ 40 yds my arrow went about a foot and a half above point of aim. I shoot a 60# Hunter recurve, 29" 2216s with 175 gr. heads. That's alot of arrow. I draw about 27 1/2" and shoot three under. I'm guessing my point on to be around 50 yds. Does that sound realistic?
Quote
The blood of the stag arouses the senses like the smell of offal, musk and menses.
Im shooting 53#@27" which is my draw lenght. three under and my point on is 25 yds. I shoot pure instinctive out to 25 yds and if a longer shot presents itself i use gap shooting, top of back at 30 yds, 6" over back for 35yds and about 12" over back at 40 yds. I find at close range i can execute a faster more accurate shot with instinctive.
I have been hunting for about 35 years and always shot split finger, but recently bought a bow that was tillered 3 under and decided to give it a try. It really works well for me. After looking at some of my trad videos i realized that the majority of the good shooters on them are shooting 3 under so im sticking with it. I feel its easier to be more consistent
QuoteOriginally posted by HUNT 24/7:
QuoteOriginally posted by ishoot4thrills:
QuoteOriginally posted by HUNT 24/7:
Any hunters out there shooting 3 under?????
Yes, there are bunches of us! [/b]
Right on, I know there sure are alot of 3 under target shooters, I shot 3 under yesterday & it is an instant improvment for me. [/b]
Something I used to see was three WAY under.
The arrow had an upper and lower nock point on the string and the fingers were another inch or more below that (a little rubber ball indexed the finger grip spot). So, the arrow was right below the eye but with a low jaw (or ear) anchor. I forget what it was called but it was not allowed for "official" use at our field course.
To aim, you would "walk" the index ball up or down in your grip so the point-aim distance would move. That part was called "string walking" and a variation was to count the serving threads ("thread counting") and grip it with your index finger below that spot (having worked out the yardages eariler through trial and error. Both methods were "cheats" at barebow (now "traditional") shoots; though I think FITA allowed/allows it.