I noticed this ad in the latest TBM and recall seeing it before, but just checked out the website and it looks very interesting.
Has anyone seen this DVD and/or have any thoughts on it? Seems like it my help me out a little if any of it is true.
http://pushrelease.com/index.html
Thanks
Jake
PS. Mods if this needs moved or is unappropriate please feel free....
I Have the DVD. OK approach. Have not spent anytime on the range trying it yet, but plan too. Not much help here, but interested in anyone as well that has spent some time trying his method. I kind of already had been trying a very similar approach on my own before I got the video
Cured me and at least 6 others I tought it to.
Best money I ever spent in archery for me!
I had the DVD, but I gave it to another fellow. The Push Release is holding at full draw and then using back tension you squeeze your anchor finger just a little further back. Makes it seem like you are pushing a button. There is not much on that DVD so see if someone would let you borrow it. You can watch it once and get the concept.
Hey Cade! I am the another fellow. It cured my target panic! :bigsmyl: I have since sent your DVD to another fellow!
Mike
That's great Mike! I thought I had given it to you but couldn't remember. Glad to hear the TP is under control.
Cade
Its nothing that hasnt been taught before , Ive heard the same thing about 5 to 10 years ago. If it works for ya , GREAT! :)
With apologies to Jay Kidwell (and you really ought to read his book, Instinctive Archery Insights, if you have a problem with target panic), target panic is caused by programming the brain to release the arrow as soon as we reach full draw and come on target. After releasing the arrow a number of times when we come on target, the brain develops a learned response, and begins releasing the arrow in anticipation of reaching full draw and coming on target, which is where the problems start. Kidwell's approach is to de-program the brain using various exercises, which have proven to be effective.
Linsin's "push release" is a method of turning the release into more of a mechanical process that is controlled by the conscious brain rather than just letting the subsconcious brain decide when it's time to release the arrow. The problem Linsin has to overcome is that we are taught that the release should be a surprise when it happens or you will ruin the shot. How can it be a surprise if you consciously decide when to "pull the trigger?" His solution to that problem, which is clever, is to use one of the holding fingers to "squeeze off a shot" in the same way a rifle shooter would, thus keeping the shot more under the control of the shooter, while also maintaining the surprise element of the exact timing of the release.
If you really want a comprehensive understanding of target panic, get Kidwell's book.
On the other hand, Linsin's method is not described in Kidwell's book, and I found that learning it gave me more confidence that I could control the timing of my release. Once I got that confidence, I did not decide to continue with his method as my normal release, but I think going through the process improved my shooting.
Linsin's DVD is reasonably priced, and I would not cheat him out of a part of his living by passing around free copies, other than to my immediate family and friends with whom I normally share things.
I must agree that any one method is not a cure all for every shooter, and the concept may help the person overcome problems with TP, but his own form of shooting and release might just be improved or adapted after learning to release properly or control the brains decision making process.
I would like to watch the DVD just for the same reason McDave gave of the possibility of helping me over come the brain wanting to release prematurely, and controling WHEN to release.
I do not see however how a controlled release by pulling the anchor finger back a little further could keep any sort of surprise as part of the shot. If you are concienceously deciding when to release, the surprise is lost.
Thanks for the input guys
Jake
"I do not see however how a controlled release by pulling the anchor finger back a little further could keep any sort of surprise as part of the shot. If you are concienceously deciding when to release, the surprise is lost."
It works the same as a rifle shot. You decide when to start pulling the rifle trigger, and by a controlled squeeze, it is still a surprise when the rifle fires.
QuoteOriginally posted by McDave:
...target panic is caused by programming the brain to release the arrow as soon as we reach full draw and come on target. After releasing the arrow a number of times when we come on target, the brain develops a learned response, and begins releasing the arrow in anticipation of reaching full draw and coming on target, which is where the problems start.
That is but
one form of target panic. In many people it manifests itself as an inability to get on target.
QuoteOriginally posted by McDave:
"I do not see however how a controlled release by pulling the anchor finger back a little further could keep any sort of surprise as part of the shot. If you are concienceously deciding when to release, the surprise is lost."
It works the same as a rifle shot. You decide when to start pulling the rifle trigger, and by a controlled squeeze, it is still a surprise when the rifle fires.
McDave - I can see that with a rifle, as you do not know when the trigger will release the hammer, but with a bow string, you still have to manually move your fingers or open the hand to allow for release. This takes a mental decision that is calculated to an exact time that you know is going to happen when YOU say it is.
It is not as if you keep pulling your anchor finger untill some magic spot that you don't know causes your fingers to let go, in fact you could keep pulling till you hit your ear if you wanted, but you still must dicide when to release and that is a set decision and time.
The surprise aspect of the release really is a non issue if by controlling the release you are able to cure some TP problems you may have. I do think I will take a look at the DVD just to see if parts of it help me.
"It is not as if you keep pulling your anchor finger untill some magic spot that you don't know causes your fingers to let go, in fact you could keep pulling till you hit your ear if you wanted, but you still must decide when to release and that is a set decision and time."
That's why you need to see the video. His method does allow for an element of surprise, similar to a rifle shot.
McDave
I agree, I think we may be talking about the same think just don't know it. I will get the DVD and then see if I understand this concept better. I will get back to you then.
Thanks for your input. Nice Muley by the way! :D
Jake
I wouldn't waste money on it. Everything that's in it has been discussed already.
And you are right, Jake, pushing an imaginary button does not make your fingers let go all by themselves.
The only thing that comes close to a true surprise release for finger shooters is to 1) Gradually relax your fingers so at some point they can no longer hold the string. This is nearly impossible to do slowly with a hunting weight bow because as soon as you start to relax, the string is gone.
2) Use your face to "peel" the fingers off the string as you slowly pull back. This is a the best method to get a truly surprise release that replicates the act of squeezing a trigger. You are still consciously acting, but the shot goes off on its own.
Todd
is it basiclly just physically pulling the string back further than your anchor even if just fractions of an inch than letting go when you feel you have reached sufficeint back tension?
The whole gist of it was this: pull to anchor, imagine your finger is on a trigger or button, then push the imaginary button by pulling back into it a little more. That's it. Why he needed a whole DVD to say that is beyond me.
He says the release will just happen automatically, but it really is not the same as pulling a gun trigger and letting the mechanisms determine when the shot goes off.
If it works for you, great. But keep in mind, it will tend to make you increase tension in your fingers (because they have to be tense to "push a button").
When I told the author this, he agreed, but said that the mental benefits outweigh this physical imperfection. If it helps you mentally, I'd have to agree.
I have tried that very method I believe. It does help but I would not say it is a cure all. A person could still not put the same amount of pressure back each time or curl his fingers instead of have back tension to mentally have the same effect.
Thanks for your thoughts Todd
I own the video and it's fool's gold IMHO but it might work for some for a while. The entire premise of this "trick" is to make yourself increase back tension to create the release. That said if you don't know how to maintain and create back tension during your shot sequence you won't understand why and how this "trick" works. Once you figure out the how, why and what of back tension you shouldn't need this trick to make it happen but if it works for you at that point so be it and it's not a bad thing! If you get to the point that you know how to shoot the perfect shot (via blank bale shooting) the only challenge after that is making it happen when it counts EVERYTIME which is an extremely difficult Mental PROCESS. If I said I've figured that out I'd be lying otherwise I'd have a video of my own and would be the King of archery..... We can all shoot great shots and some can do it more regularly than others but others are great and can do it more often than not. If anyone says they can do it everytime they're lying or are a fool and need to wake up. Tiger may have shot a couple near perfect rounds but I can promise you he would admit he's not perfect either and has never shot a perfect round.
Everyone is describing TP and some of it's cures.
Dr K says it's a premature hold or a premature release. McDave says it's mental programming. Others have given other opinions on it.
And I think that everyone is right, but only to a point.
I have to go with Al Henderson who described it as your subconscious not trusting the way you've built your shot. And the cure is to build your shot so that you can trust it. Easy to say, but real hard to do.
Often, the better we get at archery, the better we expect to shoot. We've had some success and shot some good arrows and those are the ones we tend to remember. No problem with that. But the problem comes in when we have false expectations of how good we are. Since we've shot a few good arrows, we think that by bearing down a little more we can shoot all good arrows. We start to wait on a sight picture that is perfect, but our form is not quite perfect yet. This leads to hesitation, which leads excess muscle tendion and then to either to flinching or inability to hold. Dr.K's premature release or premature hold.
Mr Henderson & Len Cardinale wrote that you should shoot the blank bale to get the feel of your shot, then use a bridge to ingrain the feel of a good shot on a target. Len recomnended seven drills, one for each major part of your shot, to be practiced every time that you get your bow out. This is the way to build a shot that you can trust. Once you can trust your shot, you are then free to consciously aim and you can rely on your subconscious to not hesitate or rush the shot.
When you can do that, you will have TP under control.
Hope this helps,
Allen
TILZ
I have since watched the DVD and must say this trick has if nothing at all, helped me to be able to draw on a target, and hold with out getting all freaked out and release prematurely. I still do not execute the trick perfectly, but I do shoot very well when I do and even when I fail I am happy about being able to draw and hold my anchor while focusing on a spot, something I have never been able to do without loosing it! Like you said, I hope it continues to help me be relaxed and control my shot / release on a regular basis.
QuoteOriginally posted by AllenR:
Mr Henderson & Len Cardinale wrote that you should shoot the blank bale to get the feel of your shot, then use a bridge to ingrain the feel of a good shot on a target. Len recomnended seven drills, one for each major part of your shot, to be practiced every time that you get your bow out. This is the way to build a shot that you can trust. Once you can trust your shot, you are then free to consciously aim and you can rely on your subconscious to not hesitate or rush the shot.
When you can do that, you will have TP under control.
Hope this helps,
Allen
Allen
Can you direct me to where I may find these steps, is it a book or video?
I must agree with you that trust has been a big issue for me, my mind takes over after it tells me that my shot sequence is not to be trusted and my instincts are far superior and can make the shot without the help of good form. I am learning that I must trust my shot and form for consistant shooting.
Thanks
Jake
McDave
I must say Sir, after trying the method described in the video, there is a certain surprise that comes at the release, especially if you are really concentrating on the "push". The string seems to leave my fingers, and kindof surprise me. I would not (did not) believe it until I tried it myself.
Thanks for your insight on the matter. I should have known better than argue until I had all the facts.
:D
Jake
over&under,
Jay Kidwell's book "Instictive Archery Insights" is a great read and covers some of what AllenR is describing about target panic. I had target panic bad and AllenR's post is spot on in my opinion. Jay's book helped me tremedously.
It's also my opinion that if you combine Jay's book with the "Master's of the Barebow Volume 3" these two tools will provide everything required to build the perfect shot (both physical and mental). MBIII covers building the perfect shot step by step while Jay's book covers the mental portion in detail. In the video Rod Jenkin's provides his view on building the perfect shot then Larry Yien gives his take. Both are very similiar and the fundamentals are nearly identicle but having it explained differently can help understand better.
Tilz
Thanks for the input, I plan on ordering MBIII in short order, it sounds like everyone that has watched it comes to the same conclusion.
It is so true that the mental and physical aspects of the shot are equally important.
As I said I considered the push-release to be a useful learning device, but have not continued to use it as my regular release. I wonder if anyone has continued to use it as their regular release after they learned it? I wonder if Michael Linsin uses it as his regular release?
well who said the release has to be a surprise?...Isn't there 2 schools of thought on this?