Hey Trad Gang Guys and Girls,
Has anybody attended Rick's school? And if so, how did you like it? Also, how does it compare to other schools or shooting clinics you have been to?
Thank you.
good question,i'll be interested in the answers this thread recieves
I've gone twice! Best money you will spend on trad shooting....
Without any reservation at all, I would recommend this program to anyone who was looking to improve their shooting abilities. Further, he does really well at giving you a "keep it simple" foundation.
I attended about this same time last year. The first thing that we did the first morning was to film my shooting and critique my form (or lack thereof. Then Rick gave me specific steps towards shoring up my shooting.
Some of the things that I learned were to be CONSISTENT in sqaring both my feet and shoulders towards my aiming point. SLOWING down, solid DOUBLE-ANCHOR, HOLD, HOLD, RELEASE. The end results were quit astounding as I watched the films on day 2, after incorporating the recommendations. I shot a 246 and 226 (2nd round and a bit tired) on the target course. Before this, I was averaging about 190.
I also learned that my 55 lbs DAS Recurve was too heavy. Yes I could shoot it o.k. at short range, but holding it 2-3 seconds and obtaining the proper sight picture resulted in the need for a lighter bow, which luckily for me, Rick was able to provide for the sessions.
I will try to cross-pollinate Rick's style of instinctive shooting. The "double anchor" point maximizes your consistency shot after shot. We had to re-fletch me a couple of arrows with the back of the fletching just coming to the the tip of my nose. Then my split finger, middle finger to corner of mouth was completely changed to the front of the bent thumb, to the back lower part of my jaw bone.
Rick's process is all about repetition, with no reference to the tip of the arrow, or Gap shooting. It's about achieving the proper sight picture by focusing on your target and adjusting the bow arm for longer shots. If your form is right, it just becomes exculsively an elevation issue with the shot.
Repetition produces the proper data to your subconscious and you achieve the desired results. As I watched my second day of shooting, I was truly amazed at how far I'd come. I had significantly reduced a lot of bad habits like plucking the arrow, rushing the shot, peeking, etc.
If you are like me, I don't like to think that I am "not in control". But Rick's knowlegeable insight and patient demeanor gave me a totally new perspective and made me a better shooter.
BTW, his bows are top shelf as well. My Dakota Hunter trumps all my others as my fav!
I attended Rick's school last week (unfortunately just for one day because of work commitments) and was really impressed. Best money I have spent on archery. Like some of the other above, the first thing he did was to take some video. We went inside and watched the video and he pointed out what I needed to work on. It was very helpful and my shooting is improving.
The main componants of Rick's shooting style are something I had already picked up by watching his videos. However, it was very helpful having him watch me shoot because as he told me "it is hard to improve your shooting if you dont know your doing wrong". That may not be an exact quote but it is close. In my case, I had a problem of my bow arm collapsing at the shot so we came up with an approach to work on that particular issue.
It was very cold while I was there so we spent some time shooing inside one of the local archery shops. While inside, Rick spent a good bit of time showing me how to fine tune my bow. We also changed my setup by switching to an arrow that was about 100 grains lighter than the arrow I showed up with. The amazing thing is that Rick adjusted the pad on the shelf and my sight picture changed very little from the heavier arrow. I really didnt have to adjust my shooting much and the arrow is obviously shooting alot flatter.
After we went through the formal part of the school, we spent the rest of the afternoon shooting the 3d courses. He would watch me shoot and give me suggestions then he would shoot to show me how to do it. The only thing I am going to say is that if there is anyone who doubts his shooting ability, they need to shoot with him a time or two. After the first round on the 3d course, we moved back and shot from the compound stakes and he was consistently drilling the 10 ring (I am not sure he ever missed the 10) out to about 55 yards.
His bows are really shooters and I have one on order although Rick never once tried to sell me one. I shot the bow he was shooting and it was an exceptional shooter.
Finally, you wont meet a nicer guy. He called me on my cell after I left for the airport to make sure I new how to get to the airport. He is a class act. If you want to improve your shooting you should consider attending his class.
I watched several of his videos and played with three under a while. I finally took the plunge this year and shot 3 under the entire hunting season using the double anchor. Killed 9 hogs and 2 deer.0 misses.Heck of a lot better than the previous years. I would recommend the school and I ain`t never been....RC
Yep. I attended and wish I would have had the opportunity years ago. Single best investment on archery to date.
At the expense of sounding dumb... Who is Rick?
Check out his website here (http://www.dakotabows.com/)
And also check out another string of posts about his school in the shooting forum.
Just would like to second that his school taught me more in 1 1/2 days than I learned in the past 20 years.
Bob, Ricky Welch is arguably the best barebow shooter in America and possibly the world. He is unreal...he has gone to shoots and won the Recurve, longbow and primitive class...and all of that with his kid sitting on his shoulders! (that is hearsay...but I wouldn't doubt it :0))
I am not going to the class...but sure would enjoy gleening as much info about his instruction as possible! Can anyone tell me why they think three under works better than split?
Thanks,
Ernie
Hornseeker, there are certain elements of his style that are more important than others. There wouldn't be much point in going to his school unless you were willing to adopt his anchor, his stance, and his holding time. Similarly with instinctive shooting; he doesn't teach gap or other aiming methods.
3 under is one step down from that. He encourages his students to use 3 under, because he believes it is a more consistent release; less prone to errors than split fingers. But he will teach his method to someone who wants to use split fingers; it is not essential to his method.
Ernie:
I think a big part of the three under approach is the double anchor Rick teaches. One anchor is middle finger to corner of mouth (or thumb nuckle to jaw just under earlobe) and the other anchor is the back of the feather on the tip of your nose. I think it would be harder to use the feather as an anchor with split. I am sure there are other reasons.
Does he have a video on his way of shooting. I have shot a real bow for 3 days now. I would like to learn right from the start.
He has two DVD's out on his shooting method. They're available on his website (see my link above) or from 3 Rivers. If you really want to learn right from the start, you need to attend his school. When you look at a video or read a book, you imagine you're doing something whereas you're really doing something else.
Unemployed, Lives in Virginia Makes it kinda hard to go. But I would love to go.
Rick couldn't shoot his way out of a wet paper bag! :smileystooges:
Just kidding! :thumbsup:
Raven >>>>-------->
I am going to look into it a bit more. I anchor for about 2 seconds usually...so that part shouldn't be bad. Does his front foot point more forward or do both point at a 90 to the target?
A good friend and fellow TGer is hoping to go to Ricks in April... that would be cool... I hopefully could learn some of it second hand..
Does Rick talk about till and nock height concerning shooting 3 under vs split?
E
Hornseeker,
Rick stands with both feet pointing 90 to the target. He does talk about how to set up your bow to shoot concerning the nock height. He say you can shoot both 3 under or split with his style. I shoot split finger and have no problems shooting this way, but I have been shooting this way for almost 30yrs :eek: :scared: Dam I'am getting old! :thumbsup:
He's not "Superman" and dose show a few misses and one deer that took two days to hunt down and kill with a secound arrow while stalking in his bare feet. GOOD STUFF!!!
Raven >>>>------->
Cool.
Is the nock high? Low? Does he like an 1/8 pos tiller or what?
Thanks
Rick really doesn't get into bow tuning much in the class. In my case, he just had me start shooting my bow 3 under, and after a few shots noticed that my arrow was getting a bounce and raised the nock point a little. I'm not sure what his feelings are about bow tuning in general. I'm interested in it, but when I brought it up, he didn't really say much about it. He discusses moving the nock point more to fine tune the point of impact than for arrow flight. I think he converts so many people who come to his class shooting bows that were tillered for split fingers to three under that he just doesn't think it's much of a problem.
Since his class, I have retuned several of my bows for 3 under using bare shaft tuning. All were originally tillered for split fingers. Generally, they required moving the nock point up 1/8" - 1/4" to get good bare shaft flight with 3 fingers. Some were easy to retune, some were finnicky. I guess that's why bowyers ask whether you want your bow tillered for split fingers or three under, because it's not always easy or possible to get good arrow flight both ways.
Good post Dave.
Well... I am going to try 3 under for a bit. I think, especially for closer hunting range shots (15-35 yards) it will really make a big difference in developing a good, easy to use sight picture...
Do you use the fletch to the nose deal? Recently..when toying with this...I am whapping my nose with my string...to the point of bleeding... any advice here????
Ernie
I've been whapped in the nose a few times myself. There have been many times I have NOT been whapped in the nose, so I know it's possible, but I can't say that I have completely figured it out. This is what I think so far:
It helps to have the cock feather at 9:00 to 10:00; no higher than 10:00. This gives you a little room to adjust for fletch clearance, but not much. I think if I just brush the bottom of my earlobe with my thumb knuckle and lightly touch my nose to the back of the feather, but not too close to the shaft, I'm less likely to get whapped. Touching lightly also probably makes a more precise anchor than jamming my knuckle into my earlobe. I'm sure it also has to do with how you release the string; if you roll it into your nose, you will feel it (this is probably good training, as they used to say in the Marines). Rick favors holding the string in the middle of the last finger joint rather than the deeper hook that seems to be coming into favor; it could be that you are more likely to whap your nose with a deep hook. Although I need to use a deep hook on my heavier bows, and I haven't always whapped my nose. It could have something to do with not getting your string forearm back in line with the arrow. Rick is pretty careful when he sets up your anchor to make sure you have good allignment, but that doesn't mean I always do it right when I'm practicing on my own. I would imagine that having your string forearm at a slight angle outward could push the string into your nose on release. As you can see, it is something I haven't entirely figured out myself yet.
Right on... I'll keep messing with it...
E
I bought his viedo about a year ago just got around to watching it a few weeks ago i have been shooting a stick for 5yrs now and changed everthing about my shooting like in his viedo.I have been shooting better then i ever have viedo worth 10 times the price
When my form goes down hill for what ever reason, I like to put in Ricks video and watch his form. Then when I go back out to shoot again I seem to be back in the grove. :readit: :knothead:
Good luck on your shooting!
Raven >>>>----------->
If your hitting your nose you are overdrawing your bow in my experience.RC
If you're hitting your nose you might just need to ensure your face is squared up to the target more. If you turn it away from the target and have a good size nose, like me, then it'll turn into a bleeder for sure. I've lost what seemed like a quart of blood after some long sessions where my head position wasn't right! Making sure my I'm facing the target is one of my five or six mental checks I go through when executing the shot and as long as I do that I don't whack my nose with the string regardless of my draw length - within reason. RC stated overdrawing can cause hitting you nose and I agree in the sense if you're anchoring in the same spot and then increasing your draw your head will turn and you will whack your nose.
I am getting ready to leave later this week to go to rick's school. I will be there Thur-Sat. Looks like I am going to get lucky on the weather forecast...hopefully the warm temps and sun stick around. I will let you know how it goes. To say I am excited is an understatement...
Greg
THe man is born killer on game, with a bow!!!He can shoot and a heck of bowhunter! :wavey:
Cool! Take good notes@pictures, will be waiting on a full report when you get back! :readit: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Have fun and shoot straight...
Raven >>>>-------->
Greg,
When Rick sets you up to use his anchoring system, he will fletch one of your arrows so you can anchor with the back of the cock feather touching your nose. Along with whatever other changes he thinks you ought to make to your form, which in my case was about 5 changes, I think. Since these changes are made all at once, it is kind of intimidating, but Rick is a good teacher, and it all seems to work out in the course of the first day's class.
When I returned home and started practicing his system, I got more comfortable with it, of course, and my draw extended a little. It extended enough that the side of the cock feather was hitting my nose instead of the back. which throws off the shot to the left a little, as the rear of the arrow is moved a little to the right. I corrected this by moving the fletching about 1/8" further forward, so my nose had clearance to go behind the cock feather again.
My point is that it is probably not a good idea to fletch up a bunch of arrows right away with the fletching in the new position from Rick's class. Just fletch up what you need to practice with for the first few weeks, until you settle in to the new anchor.
I think this is probably good advice, but since you are going to the class, why don't you ask Rick and let us know what he says?
thanks for the info. I will definitely ask him.
Stay tuned!!