Let me know what needs improvement. My anchor point could be more consistant, but I'd like to see what yall think...
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=50543523
Hard to tell from that distance....you need to get closer to the camera....but it looks like you are short drawing to me.
I have another thats a bit closer, its uploading now.
I have had a problem with short drawing before, I probably am now. Any tips for correcting it, I cannot anchor on a tooth, without the string slapping my face. Corner of the mouth moves around a bit, but thats what I try to use.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=50546194
Heres the other, not much closer, but a bit clearer...
Ignore the flyer from a high elbow...
LBK,
IMO, you're not getting full extension. You're elbow and bow arm height seem to be okay, but you're just not getting to full draw.
Might try pausing at the corner of your mouth, then, force yourself to extend by bringing your back muscles to bare before releasing.
I have been told time and time again I have a 25" or 26" draw, But those arrows are 29" and 29.5", I'd have a lot more arrow sticking out, plus I wouldnt be getting told I wasnt at full draw, so I know this just isnt the case.
I'll work on it tomorrow, or when I can and try to use my back muscles more, keep the comments coming guys, they are much appreciated.
Thanks.
The Kid
If you could get some video above and behind you as you shoot the folks here could see about your alignment in short order.
To me, it looks like you are nearing the face and letting fly. I had a friend who developed a problem with not having a repeatable anchor. He'd get somewhere near his face and let fly. He had to work close to the bale on slowing down, feeling an anchor, before releasing.
It's hard to see exactly where you are anchoring but you mention having a hard time finding a spot. You might try using a bone structure as an anchor. Try the thumb tucked under the jaw or a finger pressed against the cheek bone.
Let's see more vids... :-)
Str8Shooter: You are correct, but my hand is touching my face, not just nearing it. The joint in my thumb usually touches the corner of my mouth and I release.
I'll try and get a couple more vids tomorrow...
For sure you are short in drawing there. Try this. Knell down 90 right to your target, than draw your bow full>ancor it, when facing away from target. And after that, turn to target and release. Why like that, because your back will when you turn, add a little more tension to your shoulders, since you will twist like a drill. Like that you will see for yourself that you are short in draw.
Now you look like this:
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/bernard704.jpg)
And you should look:
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/form2clock3.JPG)
+ For form you dont need to be on 15 meters. Build your form in less than 5 meters your brain will remeber it faster since you will not be focused in aiming. Try to forget about arrow hit when building your form.
Ostrorogi: I'll give that a try but, I am nowhere close to the first picture, in the slightest. I believe the fellow in the first pic has a severely high elbow, and hes not getting near the extention I am.
I shoot much closer to the 2nd picture than the first, maybe not quite as full of an extension or as much back tension either.
I was forgetting to aim, my arrows were all over the place.lol
After shooting for 7-8 years and having many, many wins shooting 3-D, its not an issue of being new to the sport, just trying to perfect everything.
I am fully functional and accurate the way I shoot now, I would just like to improve that even more, thats why I came here....
I will try to get another video this evening, but no promises.
Thanks for the help.
The Kid
First picture was an exsample, sorry.
Perfection is the key of total sucess.
I had simlar problem than you do... I drawed 28" but when i made my form like it should be i came on 29".
It looked to me like you were letting go at 5 oclock, and ending up at 6. If you are letting go when your thumb joint touches the corner of your mouth...then you are short drawing and not getting full extension or proper alignment.
It also looked like your shoulders are pointing left of the target.
Get an overhead view if you can.
I have a couple overhead shots, but they are in the late evening, and poor quality. But I will post when they upload.
Terry: I will agree that I am stopping at 5 o'clock and ending up at six. Also agreeing that I am short drawing.
Today I was told AGAIN I have a 25 1/2" draw, it gets frustrating, cause I know thats not the issue in the slightest, nor is the bow weight.
Right now, If I draw and touch my canine tooth, I have an exact 28" draw, and thats aparently not quite getting full extension. So I would assume, after perfecting the 12/6 line-up, I will have close to a 29" draw? Correct me if I am wrong.
Ostrorogi: Don't apologize, I understood what you were trying to say, I just wanted to make it clear my problems werent quite that severe. lol.
Thanks again,
The Kid
Listen to what these guys are telling you....sometimes what we think we're doing, isn't what we're actually doing. Most people don't draw as far as they think they do.
I think that is the case with you....you are nowhere near the extension you could be...
Again it's hard to tell from your videos....but it looks to me that you are much closer to the guy in the first pic, than Terry in the second pic....
You're robbing yourself of some bow performance...get that elbow back.....strive for the 12-6 position with a positive push-pull at release and your accuracy will improve......
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=50642304
Waaaay too dark to see anything...
I guess I'll try again tomorrow, this was shot in the late evening, after working on another project...
I think that video is basically useless, but take a look I suppose...
The Kid
You're elbow is ending up in good alignment, but you're releasing before you get there. Another video with 2 or 3 shots would be good to see.
I'll be seeing you in a couple weeks. Maybe we can do a bit of work on your from. I know a fellow that will be there that can help you better. I'll see you there.
To all that posted,
It was brought to my attention that it might appear I was argueing with some of you, that is not the intention of any of my posts.
I apologize for anything I might have said that deterred further advice. All is welcome, and of course, no one can see the same problems with themselves as others can.
Keep all the advice coming, it is much appreciated.
I'll see you there Johnny, I'd be glad to get some pointers, or a shooting lesson or two.
Thanks,
The Kid
No worries....I didn't read any of that into your post. Still looking for that over head view.
Sent you an email.....
Just caught your post JAG...who's the fellow?
Well, Bradd, we all know I could never possibly achieve your status of "expert archer", but thank you for your comment.
I dont think my bow hand is tight, It's quite relaxed actually. I know I dont have a consistent anchor or proper back tension, but I disagree that I'm just "flingin arras"
Thanks again for your contribution.
Terry: I think that would be Sterling Holbrook he's speaking of...
The Kid
Bradd, Obviously you have some issues dude...when you start with "not to be nasty" and end with "good attempt at flingin' arras though"....
I'll be blunt here.....comments like that aren't welcome here, and neither will you be if you keep it up.
We have a young archer here looking for help, and that's what you contribute. Please refrain from any further comment if you can't contribute in a positive way..........
Bradd (aka Canadian Mohawk) has recently started to take himself WAY too seriously and now thinks 1) only he and a few others know anything about archery, and 2) everyone who disagrees with him is out to get him.
Sorry for the interuption, LongbowKid. Have you ever tried a clicker? Not one of the shoot-through models, but one that goes on the upper limb of your bow and is attached to your bowstring with a string. I think it would really help you in anchoring and pulling through your shot. Might be worth a try.
I watched your video a couple more times. On the whole your form looks pretty solid. I think the biggest thing is just getting a good, solid line.
Without watching you in person I can only suggest a couple things I've seen or worked through myself. First, does it feel like you are pulling with you arm or with the back muscles? I've seen a few guys, who are very strong, capable of just using the bicep to pull the string. If you can do this the muscle contracting in your bicep will make it difficult to bring the elbow in line with the arrow. Even with the proper anchor point it will prevent you from getting that last little bit of extension. If you are you just need to learn to relax the muscles in the arm and transfer to the back. Alot of the tension in the arms can be negated simply be relaxing the fingers and forearm and the rest of the arm will follow suit.
If you aren't doing this you may just need to adjust your anchor a little. I learned a tip to help select your natural anchor point. Simply stand, extend both arms out at shoulder height, turn your head (like your looking at a target), and bend your draw arm at the elbow until the hand contacts the face. This generally works out to the point where your body wants to anchor naturally. It may be further back than what you currently use or maybe forward. Try it and see. I've shown this to lots of people and it usually works out really well. Keep in mind, you may have to adjust it slightly to keep the arrow centered under your dominant eye.
Mike brings up a good point, as well. A clicker can be a very valuable tool in encouraging good form and working on improving yourself. I haven't used on much but I know a couple excellent shots who do. If you are interested in this try to find someone who can help you set it up properly or maybe pick up a video showing its use. I believe that Scott Antczak has a video that shows the proper set up and usage of one.
Longbowkid, your doing good. Keep after it and don't be afraid to post more videos.
Good shooting.
Chris
It's nice to see all that are helping out a new shooter. I too have concerns that I am struggling with back tension. I do try to relax wrist and arm and engage back tension. I get full draw at 29in. I bought a form master(rigid) to futher ingrain an develop BT. What's your thoughts on that for a training aid? Also wouldn't it be nice to have a permanent posting of examples of shooting angles when we post up a "hows my form" question. thanks,Steve
Per Guru's earlier post, Trad Gang won't be host to a continuation of the verbal battles seen on other sites lately...not happening here.
Bradd, Com'on dude, this isn't about me and you, this all about how the good people of TG get treated.
So again, I'll offer this "advice" to you....if you want to help,then offer advice...but lose the sarcasm.....if not, go elsewhere,if you haven't burned those bridges already.....
Longbowkid, yeah the vids are hard to see, but based on what I could see, I'd suggest lots of no fire drills, with a friend watching to checking at what point the drawing elbow aligns with the arrow point..once your find your point of alignment, work on finding a solid and repeatable anchor, then begin actually shooting the bow...yeah I know its boring to not actually shot the arrow, but no fire drills are very helpful in correcting priorities.
Most of us first pickup a bow and our only priority is to hit a target, without much attension to form and shot sequence...problem is at some point if we stay involved, we reach a point of no improvement and decide to understand and improve form and shot sequence...now the big problem....our priority hasn't changed, but we have years of ingrained subconscious stuff battling with the changes to form were trying to work out!Exchanging priorities of " I wanna hit something" to " I wanna have perfect alignment", "I wanna solid and repeatable anchor" may take some time away from trying to hit stuff.
All good advice above and I'd say they've identified your problem. I highly recommend you follow what Rod suggests above and get your alignment corrected. Trust me, I shot really good without taking the time to correct a similar problem for years and it will eventually catch up with you. Then you'll be working about four times as hard to correct it.
You mentioned you can't anchor tight because the string slaps your face. When you are using proper back tension, that won't happen so that's a good way of knowing when your alignment is on.
Ok fellas, I finally went at it today and got a fair amount of video, and did some editing so yall dont have to watch 30 clips.
I think my problems are going away, I'm usually getting a nice anchor, and I am pausing, which I almost never do.
I shot pretty well today, and was quite enthused. I used all the advice given, here's what I came up with. Occasionally the anchor point drifts or comes up short, but thats part of training for it to go away.
Maybe this will allow yall to give me more precise and accurate answers. But from the info given, I believe yall have done quite the job already...
Thanks again,
The Kid...
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=50912705
I would say slow it down even a little more to ingrain that good anchor. This is what I love to see. Those who are willing to battle their deficiencies. That not only brings great shooting but builds character. Keep it up.
I agree Bear Heart. Pausing at all is a great acomplishment for this ex snap shooter!
Take care.
The Kid
That looks a lot better, LBK! Keep at it, looks like you're making good progress. Just keep mentally reminding yourself to hit that anchor point!
Mike
LBK,
I'm not a great shot, and perhaps not even a good one, so take what I say here for what it's worth—probably not much.
Your first shot in the new video is good—real good. You shoulder height and alignment look good. During your second shot you crept before releasing. After that I notice that you're beginning to collapse, shooting quicker, and not getting to full draw. (I see a lot of myself in your form).
I'd like for you to try something and report back. Face your mark, come to full draw, extend your back tension while making sure you have a solid anchor, hold for about 3 seconds, then 'slowly' let down—don't shoot. Do that about five times or so.
Good advice Jim....and I saw the same as you...
up
I saw exactly what Jim saw....but a big improvement for sure...just nail down that alignment and anchor like in that 1st shot.
Terry
I know ya shot for the camera and all , but when its just you ...do some close pale work , slow down and concentrate with just one arrow...good practice , perfect practice ...And you will be the archer you want to be...work at it ...nice improvement!Best luck bud...marco#78