So im at the point now im shooting real well and have the confidence for hunting season. But the way I use the clicker is I reach full draw before it clicks then push my bow arm foreword to trigger the click. It allows me hold at full draw without snap shooting. But I seem to keep fighting myself now trying to push my arm foreword. I wish I could just draw let it click then hold after the click but I cant. Do you guys do anything similar to what I do that helps you? Im open to all suggestions im just worried about freezing up on a deer and not releasing.
The Olympic archers typically do what you're doing, though they pull that last little bit with their drawing arm I believe. When they hear the clicker the arrow is released immediately. They're already floating on target before it clicks and no further aiming refinement is necessary...the click is just their signal that the proper draw length has been reached and it's time to send it.
ttt
That's how I use my clicker. Come to a comfortable draw, then increase back tension (push the bow arm forward) until the clicker clicks. The clicker is my mental trigger to release.
Im confused I thought back tension was only ment for the drawing arm? Could be some of my problem I don't shoot back tension I only use my arm muscles. I guess my biggest reason when I started I wasn't taught to use BT and im not sure how to properly do it. Ive heard people say squeeze yer shoulder blades together but when I do it it feels very uncomfortable.
2Blade,
Get ahold of a copy of Rick McKinney's book "The Simple Art of Winning" - it has good diagrams and discussion on proper back tension and which muscles are involved.
First of all, you shouldn't be really "pushing" with your bow arm. You want to lock the humerus in the socket and let it stay there...continuing to pull with your drawing arm. Yes, you've got to initially do some pulling with your bicep and triceps on the drawing arm, but once you get the string on back towards your face, the upper back muscles (traps, lats, serratus) take over and the forearm and upper arm should become a big "hook" on the string.
Don't try to squeeze both shoulder blades together, but instead try to pull your drawing arm shoulder towards center. Have a good grip with the bowarm, but kinda let it relax, seated firmly in the socket.
Thanks Tom ill give it a shot
Well, ive been messing around with it. Today I was pulling with muscles that felt like they were on the right side on my back more center then my lower back. It works great and my shooting was amazing I was hitting real well.
But then I went and had to lead the horses around and my right arm was just dead. I could draw and anchor but the muscles I just spoke of in my back just couldn't pull far back enough. So far pushing the bow arm foreword has been the thing that's worked best but some shots don't feel as good as others.
The way I did it today felt like the most natural but im worried that its not good because if I do something physical and the muscle tires ill never get my clicker to click. All in all does this sound like what I need to be doing? If pushing the bow arm ahead has worked well should I just stick with that?
Nick,
When you are working on this...are you trying to aim at the same time?
Ray ;)
QuoteOriginally posted by BLACK WOLF:
Nick,
When you are working on this...are you trying to aim at the same time?
Ray ;)
Yea I was stump shooting when all this was going on. Got a huge old Oak tree that has a nice white spot on it that I shoot at. Now that youve asked im sure aiming isnt helping as im trying to more then one thing. Sorry for the long message above im just trying to get everything set before hunting season.
Nick,
Keep working on it and the muscles will get conditioned to the poundage. It sounds like you were probably using some muscles that hadn't been used before (that's probably a good thing).
However, are you sure you're not overbowed in poundage? 55# is a lot of weight to be learning to draw properly.
Nick,
You're exactly right. When you are trying to change or develop a certain aspect of your form, it's beneficial if you only focus on that instead of dividing your concentration between 2 or more aspects.
I'm not sure on the exact number but it has been said that it takes 1000 to 2000 shots to engrain an aspect of your form into your muscle memory.
I know the Korean Olympic archery team takes this pretty seriously. I have read that they will work on developing good form for about a year before they start their archers on aiming.
I would suggest getting in front of a blank bale and work on what you are trying to change or improve for at least a few weeks before you start trying to incorporate aiming back into your shooting.
Ray ;)
QuoteOriginally posted by Tom Anderson:
However, are you sure you're not overbowed in poundage? 55# is a lot of weight to be learning to draw properly.
I have to agree. There's a big difference between shooting 55# and shooting 55# when you're trying to learn to properly use a clicker. I was shooting 57# when I started using a clicker and it wore me out at first. Now I can shoot a full field round an still control my shot, but it took a lot of time and work to build up that much endurance.
That's not to say you can't learn to use a clicker with hat draw weight. I did. But don't push it too far at first. Small steps and work up your arrow count gradually.
Weight is not a problem drawing the bow feels effortless and I can hold from 5-7 seconds before I start to shake. I have been training with my 45lb recurve also.
Nick it sounds like you're cheating yourself by pushing forward to get the click. The reason for the clicker is to ensure a complete draw and to release with back tension. Draw back into the click, don't push into it. You're gonna give yourself more problems by "reaching" to complete your draw.
QuoteOriginally posted by Molson:
Nick it sounds like you're cheating yourself by pushing forward to get the click. The reason for the clicker is to ensure a complete draw and to release with back tension. Draw back into the click, don't push into it. You're gonna give yourself more problems by "reaching" to complete your draw.
Ive tried and for some reason as soon as it clicks I shoot which turns in to snap shooting. I guess I could snap shoot as long as I reach full draw til it clicks?
I may have misunderstood are you saying to reach full draw hold then pull backwards in to the click?
QuoteOriginally posted by 2Blade:
I may have misunderstood are you saying to reach full draw hold then pull backwards in to the click?
Yes. It doesn't have to be a long, drawn out event, maybe a second or two. Draw, anchor, squeeze back - *click* - arrow away!
Try to get a video showing how guys use the clicker and it will all come together for you. Dan Bertalan's "Shoot Instinctive Better Than Ever" videos show it off pretty good as Dan uses a clicker.
You should think about using your 45# bow to learn this with like the other guys mentioned. Once you get the technique down, then you can work on building it into your 55#ers. You're handicapping yourself using the higher weight when you have a lighter option available.
How do I go about making it click faster as I pull throug? It seems to take me around 3-5 seconds for it for to get it to click. I think its my TP stopping me because when I dont have an arrow on the string or if im not shooting at a target I can make it click as fast as I need to. Another thing that concerns me is that I went squirrel hunting the other day. I got 2 shots at chipmunks and both I reached full draw but couldnt pull to the click I just snap shot. Do you have a link to a video of someone properly using a clicker?
ttt
My 2 cents...
I used to shoot FITA and was coached by MaryAnne Schumm, a Klann Award coach (she was good) [link] (http://www.uscollegiatearchery.org/?s=bolnick) .
She taught me that you draw almost to full, float the pin (this was FITA) and then give a little squeeze of the back muscles to click.
When looking at another shooter from the side the clicker is set up so that at near draw it about 1/4" from the tip of the point. The back "clench" draws the arrow back the last 1/4" or so.
She also taught me that if the clicker causes you to snap, remove it. There should be just the slightest hesitation after the click.
When I first started using one I would occasionally release before full draw because I heard the click of the shooter next to me. That was an awful experience. Not only is the shot horrible, but the clicker would sometimes rip the fletching off. Made for a few red faces.
I don't know if this is good or not but I discovered this just before dark as I was finishing up my pratice session. If I tell myself to hold after the first click and I plan to release on the second. My clicker clicks once as you reach full draw and clicks again if you let down.
So I have it set where my bow arm is fully extended then as I anchor after the first click im aiming then I relax my bow arm slightly which drops my draw length a 1/4in which triggers the second click and I release. I only got to shoot this at 20 yards in very low light but I was grouping but shooting low. My release was very smooth and my bow arm was like a rock.
Im gonna give it a real try tomorrow but I wanted to hear your guys take on it. This feels much more better and I think I can actually do this in a hunting situation because its not difficult. To me it sounds like im on the right path. I did feel in control and I feel this would cure my TP because im drawing anchoring and holding. What do you think?
What do you have? A Crick-It?
Please keep in mind that I only ever used a clicker in competition, not for hunting, so my POV on this is that of a target shooter.
If you wait for the second click, you may wind up with a short draw due to creeping. I would try holding at full draw (after 1st click) for just a beat, then releasing.
The idea is to draw to almost full and when you are centered on the target, give a squeeze and release. Holding it a beat is ok. And when I say a beat I mean just long enough so that your release isn't a reaction to the click. I used to say "shoot" in my head before I released. Just enough of a pause to prevent snap shooting. The whole idea is to control the draw.
You might want to look at some of the TP threads here.
I'd suggest getting rid of the clicker and working on your TP first. Then add the clicker back into the equation.
QuoteOriginally posted by Mitch-In-NJ:
What do you have? A Crick-It?
Please keep in mind that I only ever used a clicker in competition, not for hunting, so my POV on this is that of a target shooter.
If you wait for the second click, you may wind up with a short draw due to creeping. I would try holding at full draw (after 1st click) for just a beat, then releasing.
The idea is to draw to almost full and when you are centered on the target, give a squeeze and release. Holding it a beat is ok. And when I say a beat I mean just long enough so that your release isn't a reaction to the click. I used to say "shoot" in my head before I released. Just enough of a pause to prevent snap shooting. The whole idea is to control the draw.
You might want to look at some of the TP threads here.
I'd suggest getting rid of the clicker and working on your TP first. Then add the clicker back into the equation.
That is why I have to the clicker to cure TP. Its helped me more these last few months then anything else has. Im also reading Jay Kidwells book to use both his drills and clicker to help me. I plan to hunt with the clicker this year.
While they are still online you can watch some of the Olympics - see http://www.nbcolympics.com/archery/ and click on "rewind" to watch it. They ask a few questions before they let you, but as long as you give the obvious answer they let you on. http://www.casttv.com/olympics/archery has direct links to the video and that may be an easier option. They have some really nice closeup shots of the clicker while in use.
Of course, as with all things, do what works for you. You can find top end coaches and competitors that do pretty much anything you want to do. It is more focus on the target and letting your body execute the shot that makes the arrow hit the spot.
Most release immediately upon click, it is obvious that a few of them released when off target from the click (you really shouldn't do that, you should control the shot not the clicker - you should let down and start over again if off the target. However even at that level it is a really hard skill to learn). For most it is too hard to have a completely consistent draw length if you pause, for those of us that shoot 80+ yards (and I do with both my Olympic bow and traditional bow - though outside of practice no clicker on the traditional) it *does* make a difference. As far as TP goes you also have to be careful that your Target Panic doesn't just turn into Clicker Panic, both an immediate release and a pause can easily turn into that.
As far as how much to pull, most have the clicker set so that once you come to full draw you need about 2-3mm (an inch is roughly 25mm) to pull through the click, again you will notice that most of the ones in the videos only have the very very end of the point to pull through. You reach full draw and then (for the standard T form - I don't think anywhere here is asking about using the BEST system)use a push/pull similar to when you stretch your arms. It should be a construction of your back muscles and you should feel your chest expand and your chest muscles stretch. All pull or all push usually results in inconsistencies.
And, lastly, 45lbs is *heavy* for a clicker - I mean *really* heavy. For an amateur Olympic archer 40lbs is usually the max one shoots. Those Olympic archers you see are normally only pulling 50 lbs and they shoot in the neighborhood of 35000 to 45000 arrows a year along with daily weight training. An adult male that regularly shoots should be looking at no more than 36lbs for learning and no more than 42 for actual shooting (and then only to reach longer yardages with an acceptable hold point - either barebow or with sights).
I would also suggest looking at http://sagittarius.student.utwente.nl/bb/ and doing a search for "clicker" or "clicker control" and you will find all you ever wanted to know about them (and then some). I hesitate to list this as some things there can cause more problems than they help, but http://www.kslinternationalarchery.com/ has a great deal of information on the topic also. Just be careful on reading form topics as BEST is an entirely different beast than what you are most likely shooting, however the mental end of the game and quite a bit of the things like shot cycle, breathing, etc work no matter the style.