Let me first say hello to all, im new here.Forum is huge!!! Anyway im from Slovenia. Bowhunting is not allowed in our country but, there is many of us who wish oposite...But its allowed on some private ranches.
Anyway i would like to share my old form video. Its on Mins longbow 45#. Shoot distance is from 20 to 30 meters.
Longbow form (http://good-times.webshots.com/video/3044054370102754273AEOPiI)
Ostrorogi, welcome to our forum! Your looking pretty good. 3 things that I see that will help you: First- get your feet position perpendicular to the target-90 degrees. You are at a slight angle and that will alter your draw length. So stay perpendicular to the target just like your bow holding shoulder 90 degrees to the target. Second, your dropping the bow arm upon release.To work this out do not use a bullseye target. Just stand in front of an empty bale of hay or out in a field and shoot at nothing in particular.This way you can concentrate totally to your holding the bow position. Third - try alittle harder in keeping your anchor hand on the face upon release.As for no bowhunting! Tell the "King" this is not England in the 12 century where poaching the deer ends in a hanging.You are all free and those deer belong to the people of Slovenia! Tell them Robin told you so!
Looking good!
Maybe what cvarcher mentioned concerning your anchor hand.
I know what it's like with no bowhunting bro!
I hope this is gonna change though!
Welcome to the Gang :campfire:
Thanks. About droping left hand. I think that its only looking like this because i dont hold my bow... after release i grab it fast... But maybe your right.
I filmed myself today with custom Mins recurve 50# on 28". My draw is 29" so i get more #.I thing its aroud 53#. Anyway... here is the movie, distance 15 meters.
Recurve shoots (http://good-times.webshots.com/video/3024133330102754273tGNIma)
OK, Now your standing correct to the target in the recurve video.But your anchor hand is really flying off the face.I also see something else which I will mention but leave up to you. If you are just target shooting then the way you draw is ok. You are holding the bow up and then drawing back.But if you really want to hunt for game it would be better to start your draw when the bow is down at your side and in one smooth motion draw while looking at the spot you want to hit.One more thing.. I know with the recurve you have a center cutout shelf so holding the boiw vertical may not be an issue but with a longbow you may want to cant the bow so you dont split your view in two with the upper bows limb. Again Im a hunter so this is all good style for that . If you stay target then your ok. Have you considered a back quiver to make it easier to draw an arrow out and load it? ps- I reccommend you rent the movie Robin Hood (old version with Errol Flynn) .
Thanks for reply cvarcher. You see a lot of things.
I just release my muscules in anchor hand. ,i dont know how to release it diferently. Must hand stay at spot?
I have side quvier, but normaly i dont use it at home. I just pickup my arrows from empty umbrella bucket :D .
Yes anchor hand should stay at the same spot every time.It may take a long time to get this part right so dont give up after a week.Some get it pretty fast. It all depends on you and the weight of the bow. Thats why its so important NOT to over bow yourself. 45lbs is a very nice weight by the way. As for a back quiver its the fastest way to get an arrow out and on the bow string than any other method -period. Since I hunt thats what I use. (Besides- Robin Hood used it too-)
I would like to reccommend you get the video- Hitting em like Howard Hill.It is excellent at teaching the hunting insinctive style of the worlds greatest archer.
QuoteOriginally posted by cvarcher:
Yes anchor hand should stay at the same spot every time.
With all due respect...I couldn't disagree more! In fact of the film clips I've viewed, Howard Hill's anchor hand did not stay at the same spot and had a bit of rearward movement, indicating proper back tension, which is one of the reasons HH was an excellant archer.
While Robin Hood did in fact use a back quiver,and I have not personally saw the need for an edge in speed(which is debatable) in reloading the bow ( prefer to and make a good shot the first arrow),its hard to argue the fact, that using a back quiver creates lots more movment when getting another arrow on the string, which in most areas of the country, pressured game will not tolerate. IMHO recommending one quiver type for ever situation, is akin to saying a recurve is best for every hunter...or a longbow is best for everyone.
Howard Hill\\'s dynamic release (http://www.tradgang.com/videos/hill/hillshoot2.wmv)
Howard\\'s dynamic release again (http://www.tradgang.com/videos/hill/hillshoot6.wmv)
And again...... (http://www.tradgang.com/videos/hill/hillshoot7.wmv)
I think your form and alignment look pretty good. Hard to tell from the clips. Your follow through is good, but not sure why your bow arm is dropping.
Can you get a dead broadside video with you shooting at a target shoulder level?
Terrys right...its kinda hard to be sure from these two clips....but I suspect the release hand moving to the right vs straight back is due to trying to release the arrow instead simply stopping holding the string...you may wanna try(close target)steady increasing back tension and simply relaxing the back of your hand to effect release, while maintaing back tension untill the arrow is well away from the bow(conclusion) From what I see in the vid's, I think your grabbing at the bow,???? and this may be the cause of the bowarm dropping at release.
Make more vid clips!!!!!!
I missed the 2nd video...but just watched it.
I think Rod is correct in that you are 'telling yourself' to release, instead of just letting it happen when your brain says 'you're on target'.
Don't switch your focus TO your release, just keep focusing on the target and let it happen. Just like letting go of a glass of sweet tea when you set it on the table...don't even think about it.
On the Video Hitting em like Howard Hill John points out the absolute rules that Howard taught him. He emphatically states the hand should stay on the face and upon release with both hands do nothing.Of course it take back tension to get you there in the first place and if the tension grows weak you end up with a creep in the release but to tell people to keep pulling thru the release gives people the impression to pluck back . I have a video of Howard demonstrating exactly those both mistakes as he does them, the creep forward, the pulling back past and finally the keeping the anchor exactly at the spot release. Thats how I do it and it works ! Watch John Shultz -he does it that way too. As for a back quiver.of course its personal choice. I could have mentioned all the great qualities why I think he should use it,but I figured if he gets the video he will find out for himself.Howard used it over any of the other contraptions for hunting so I know its the best way.
I think the clips of Howard speak for themselves, and also speak more of Howard than someone else.
HH again...with a DYNAMIC release... (http://www.tradgang.com/videos/hill/hillshoot8.wmv)
Terry, Im looking at this last video clip of Howard shooting at the stump in the Arizona desert. His anchor is rock solid and the bow pulling arm is hardly moving back at all!! His hand never moved off the face.Just a little slight back motion upon release which is from the holding back of the tension and releasing it. Ostrorogi hand is pulling way off the face.Thats what I mean.
No, I don't think so....you were describing and recomending a STATIC release Like HHs, and that is not evident in any of the clips of Howard. You said both hands do nothing, and the hand should not move off the face....and you were describing Hill. The clips prove otherwise.
HH did not have a fly away release for sure, but it sure wasn't static in any form or fashion.
At this point I'm sure you are not watching the same clips, or you are just pretending to see see something that's not there.
Terry, However you want to call it the hands upon release should stay exactly there.Thats what I did say and thats what John Shultz says in the video. I am sure youve seen that video.Tell me John doesnt say that .When you view video clips of Howard almost every shot is slightly and I say slightly differant on his release. No one can be a machine doing that motion perfect everytime.But his main stay of shots that anchor hand stays right there with a slight back motion from the release of tension. Yes, there is movement so its not static if thats what you mean but he tries to keep it as static as he can,and thats what I mean.
That may be what you mean now, but its not what you said earlier. I'm not concerned with what John 'said'.
And you just said it again....a Static description.... and in your second sentence you even admit that you said it.
"Terry, However you want to call it the hands upon release should stay exactly there.Thats what I did say"
Howard's release hand moves off his face from anchor at release.....end of story.
When you are seeing his hand sometimes move off the face and thats straight back not away, is after his release of the string from that exact spot.You should be concerned at what John says, he was taught from Hill and has been authorized to describe exactly what Hill taught to John in teaching this form by his wife Elizabeth.End of Story.
Dont argue boys...
For sure there is something wrong with my pose or release...
Let me put simple exsample, i shoot 6 arrows, i hit dead center or nice group with 3 or 4, and 2 or 3 go somewhere, arround.And that from 5 or 30 meters, distance dont matter. So im sure that center shoots are ok, but others are strange, somethimes i catch myself that i made ugly release, but for rest i really dont know.
But i think as you described me, i lower ancor arm, when im catching the bow. I have to make myself two finger string for ancor arm. At least i can try that to.
I don't need to be told by John what I'm seeing for myself.....even if they contradict one another.
"When you are seeing his hand sometimes move off the face and thats straight back not away" EXCATLY!!!!
AGAIN....this is NOT what you said from the begining...this is a DYNAMIC release and you were touting a STATIC release....and claiming Howard had a static release just because John said so....and it aint so.
Here's your exact words from earlier...
"He emphatically states the hand should stay on the face and upon release with both hands do nothing'
I'm going to argue because there is way too much missinformation going around about Howard....and that's why we have the clips available to prove how he shot.
Terry, I have all of Howards movies from the 30s on. Maybe some you havent seen. And of course there are some shots where his hand moves alittle in a straight back motion, but he keeps it on the face and most of the time that release of the string happens so fast from that spot hes on that it looks like he is dragging it out.Maybe our interpretations are a little different here.I suggest to anyone to try both ways out. One where you keep pulling back while you think you hit anchor and one where you try to keep it exactly spot on and release as close to that spot on as you can and see which groups better.When you get real good you can release before at or after anchor especially with moving targets .Thats something else again. Boy I sure wish Jerry Hill would chime in here!
CV,with respect.....that single preverted misunderstanding of Howard Hill having a static release,and the release hand should never move, has keep a untold number of guy's from ever becoming good archers...and the sad thing is, Howard Hill DID NOT shoot in that manner,because he was an excellant archer, and his princples of the shot, do not differ from what the top Olympic coaches teach today, in fact the #1 coach, teaches a variation of HH's swing draw, to force a low and relaxed bow shoulder......bet ya thought the swing draw was for hunting? ;)
Well, I didnt make up any of this. This is what Ive heard from Hills best student.Hill himself describes the 2 common errors on release and shows it and then shows the correct way. The correct way shown on that video shows his anchor hand hardly budging upon release.Ive seen a video of Jerry Hill on Believ it or not and he holds that anchor point like it was glued to his face.I only mean well to anyone looking for any pointers.Ive been at this a long time too and there are times my hand moves back but its on the face and the arrow is in the bull just as when my hand stays static.I think the main thing is keeping the hand as close to the same spot upon release otherwise your draw length will be floating.I think I will try a video of my release and shooting and see what the heck it looks like.
I would like to see it
CV, I dont think anyone is accusing you of making anything up.
I also dont believe anyone has said,the release hand HAS to move all the way back to the shoulder, only that with back tension and no antisipation of release the hand will move straight back...not remain static on the face.
I think where the misconception lies is in HH's statement of "on release the hands do nothing", a statement in which I agree 100%, the hands shouldn't do anything extra above what has already been prepared in the shot before the momment of release......and that INCLUDES doing anything to deter the natural result of proper back tension.
Shooto8S-- thats what I mean and that is a good interpretation of what Hill says too. You have a better way of explaining it.I hope Ostrorogi gets it!
It must be done Howard's way or no way these days......blah, blah, blah. I'll keep doin what works for me. I admire archerys greatest too.....but not to a point that it blinds me. Keep an open mind and always look for ways to improve your shooting performance. Good luck!!!
QuoteOriginally posted by John Dill:
Keep an open mind and always look for ways to improve your shooting performance. Good luck!!!
Thank You!!!