I am curious as to what you guys think about camo paterns. Does the actual pattern and color of your material matter?
The reason I ask, I just got in some VERY WARM clothing that absolutely saved me from the cold this weekend, but I had a doe bust me that 100% picked me out without me moving any. My cover was okay, I wasn't in super thick, but I had limbs and cover breaking up my outline, my height was plenty, etc, but she immediately picked me out.
Color and pattern matter only so much as to help break up your outline. There is no best pattern in my opinion, only better patterns for particular environments.
Without getting into it too deep....
Color matters with birds more than deer.
Deer are said to see yellow, blue and white pretty darn good and into the UV spectrum..UV brighteners my well be a nono.
Breaking up your outline is most important...I'd think some Hawaiian pattern shirts could make darn good deer camo.
Then comes blending in though not far behind...IMO.
That said...if you really like the clothing maybe you should look into getting a fairly inexpensive outer "cover up" camo layer...
Do not own any camo,earth tones and plaids work just fine for me.The very best camo is lack of movement!
Terry
What were you wearing. I know for sure deer pick out us guys in trees more that on the ground ! .
She smelled you.
I usually start the season out hunting in Wisconsin in September. If it's warm I wear blue jeans, tee shirt and shoes. As it cools off I'll wear a black and red wool jacket or an old army green wool shirt. I think I killed the first doe this year wearing my son's high school football team tee shirt.
I do use and own camouflage to hunt when it gets cold up here as it's very warm and quiet but I've never noticed a difference between "types" of camouflage or no camouflage when it comes to being picked off by a deer while in a tree or on the ground. Just my experience, but my main concern is the wind and my movement.
Color and pattern matter, but background and foreground cover also matter, and movement is a big no no.
Sometimes critters just pick you up, particularly at close range. I suspect your surrounding cover wasn't as good as you thought. Were your face and hands bare/showing?
I think color and or darkness can matter. If you are in a tree and your camo is very dark you will stand out. On the ground to light or to dark will do the same.......you need to give it some thought and even take a friend to look at your set up with that camo on. Black and white photos also help.
this late in the season, she was probably looking for you. camo is more important late season. you really gotta hide from them.
Daniel, I always thought I needed the next and the best camo that came out, but I have slowly came around 360 degrees. I have gone back to plaids and wool. As a youngster starting out hunting I watched as my Grandpa put on his red and black woolies to go sit for the day...(rifle season.) As I have grown and matured as a hunter, I have come to realize that as long as you blend into your surroundings you should have no trouble, but still need to keep the wind direction in mind. I have a couple different patterns of wool from the Asbells that I like here in Michigan, and work well on my travels out of state also.
I answered yes color and pattern both matter, but with certain reservations. This is only my opinion, but it is based on numerous things I have read over many years. Your problem may well have been "color" based on dyes with a high UV rating. Deer see further into the UV spectrum than people, and the brighteners in most clothes dyes contain UV enhancers which may make this an issue. Many of our clothes, due to these enhancers, glow in a deer's vision. Is brightness/darkness considered color or pattern? If the camo coloration strongly and "glowingly" contrasts with your surroundings, it might make you tend to stand out. I feel the pattern itself is less likely to be a problem as long as it is subdued.
In one article I read quite a long time ago, it said that military camo is specifically made with dyes that do not "glow". I believe it, because, for many years, I only used the old style military woodland camo from early season (green woods) till the leaves were completely off the trees (brown woods) with no problems. On the other hand, most commercial dyes, including those used in civilian produced camo, contain these color enhanced dyes.
Carefully matched to the terrain you are hunting camo can make a big difference.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/charlie/05rockjackinvisi.jpg)
It's not as easy as four choices. I have killed deer at ground level within 15 yards in solid olive/sage clothing (see my avatar). Also blaze orange.
Movement trumps clothing, and odor trumps movement AND clothing.
If you are in a field of grass or forest-floor of fall maple leaves a dark camp pattern is working against you.
Same in snow.
But if you are in a tree in October before the leaves change maybe snow camp was a poor choice.
I like a camo pattern with contrasts. I figure it breaks up my outline. And, on that subject, what is behind you can be more important that what is on you.
most camo blends to a solid past 20 yards, then you look like a person in a single color.
QuoteOriginally posted by GDPolk:
Color and pattern matter only so much as to help break up your outline. There is no best pattern in my opinion, only better patterns for particular environments.
I voted Yes, and totally agree with the above^^^^^.
No one color or pattern is perfect. You just don't want to stand out, or be sillohetted.
Bisch
Anything open is good camo IMO. The only one I cant stand is Mossy Oak BreakUp. I see guys wearing this heading in and out of the woods and they look like they are wearing a black suit from a distance.
I wear everything from plaid wool and flannel, to solid light colored earth tones, to an ASAT Vanish 3D suit and feel pretty well concealed.
But more important than what you are wearing is whats behind you, how still you are, and where the light is coming from.
**Best "popular enough to buy it at WalMart" camo pattern ever was Realtree Hardwoods original. Came out about 2000 and didn't stick around long. Great stuff for my country.
QuoteOriginally posted by Stumpkiller:
Movement trumps clothing, and odor trumps movement AND clothing.
If you are in a field of grass or forest-floor of fall maple leaves a dark camp pattern is working against you.
Same in snow.
But if you are in a tree in October before the leaves change maybe snow camp was a poor choice.
I agree with this - Stump articulates better than me!
Depends on what animal you are going after, we all know birds (turkey) see better then most game. But, the thing more important is where you are and how you move. Camo does nothing if an animal winds you period. Camo is in my opinion there for the "red zone", to blend your human form. December is the time of year I move to the ground, as almost any animal will pick you out in a tree with no cover.
Here in Illinois, it is mandatory to wear blaze orange during shotgun season, and a great many hunters sley deer within 50 yards. I personally, have shot deer with a bow, at 10 yards wearing orange, and in summer wearing just a grey short sleeve shirt.
It can and AT TIMES it does. I also think it is deeper than just color or design.
I have fun matching the hatch.
1-control your odors and hunt the wind. A deer's nose is their #1 defense
2-sit still. Any movements need to be slow and deliberate
3-be quiet.
4-wear something with will break your outline up. Most camo patterns look great on the shelf, but from 40-50 yards away you just look like a big dark silhouette. Patterns like ASAT and Predator do an excellent job of creating depth and breaking a silhouette. The contrast of lights and darks make an animal (or person) look "through" you because they aren't picking up an outline anywhere.
I only buy "camo" clothing if its a really good quality garment, not for the camo but for the quality of the clothing. I much prefer plaids and wool. I think plaids and wool will blend in to most terrain and "camo" you better than 99.999% of the commercialized camo out there in stores.
I will admit, I didn't read the posts so, again, I am probably being redundant.
Color and pattern don't really matter for deer, they are color blind the smart people tell us. Pattern, as was mentioned in one of the two posts I actually read, is just to break up the outline.
I can't really say for any other critters except for hogs. With them you mostly just have to beat the nose.
My opinion is that most modern camo patterns are all hype. Camo patterns such as ASAT or Predator Camo that actually does what it says it'll do are pretty good. If you've ever seen some of these newer camo patterns under a black light, you would be amazed. The thread shines like a beckon! UV brighteners I guess. Good ole wool plaid and drab colors always hold true, wool itself actually absorbes light, so it is non reflective.
Try to hunt the wind, be as scent free as you can, set still as possible and wear some good plaid/drab wool and your good to go!
EXACTLY what DarrinG said above! Exactly.....
I believe patter is important, but only if it is large and breaks up outlines. The little leaf patterns are likely worthless.
Another factor though that likely does matter is what kind of material it is. I believe a "soft" finish of a natural material is likely the best. For example the Asbel wool.
If you looked liked a dark blob in a tree this time of year, no foliage, deer will pick you off easily. Background cover and colors that break you up, light and dark, is best imo.
Odor, movement and n'shine'. Yep, some cammo looks black, and that stands out. No matter what you wear that glowing face of yours spooks more game than you can imagine. I know from my time in the military, a face just seemed out of place, in closer ranges. Movement at a distance especially out west is a game buster
Break out the popcorn and respectfully speak of HECS SUITS
I don't think camo is nearly as important as wind or movement. Having said that if you pick a pattern like ASAT or Predator that doesn't blob at a distance I think it is worth using.
And has anyone mentioned the Ghillie suit? Hands down the best camo you could not be seen in.
And why is it so effective, is it color, pattern, or surface?
I'm going to say that camo *can* make a huge difference. Especially ASAT or Predator. I picked up an ASAT leafy suit and have had so many deer look through me as though I wasn't there at all.
I've had deer bust me in similar situations when I was wearing neutral colors that must have had some shine in the UV spectrum. I couldn't tell anything wrong, but the deer did NOT like the look at all. Lack of movement with plain old wool will do a good job because the wool doesn't shine, it just blends in.
I believe that camo can be a state of mind. If you believe your invisible you will act invisible.
I'm loving the First Lite fusion camo for the area we hunt in Alaska. It's a perfect match to the colors and patterns in the tundra and spruce.
I have a heck of time picking out John or Jason when they are setup 50 yds from me when I call.
Mike
People have better eye sight than deer. Deer just pay better attention.
My step dad, who was the first to take me hunting, used to send me into brushy gullies to try to spook out deer (for him to shoot, not me). Inevitably, after coming through to the other side, he'd be hiding somewhere & usually in plain sight. I still had a heck of a time finding him.
Look at the top right corner of this page. Cade is wearing cammo, but his face shines like a diamond in a coal bin. Hide your face. Peep out at your bird feeder and watch the birds, then expose your face-the birds that are visitors, not your resident birds- will scatter.
No offense Cade, your picture just made my point.
I agree with Charlie Lambs cannot choice. Best cammo out there.
I also think cammo is more important to the hunter than the deer.
This time of year deer have been educated and are exceptionally wary. Any mistake on your end whether known or not to you is likely to end with a live deer.
Camoflage patterns are only useful to break up your outline. The idea is not to be associated with something looking like a human silhouette. Stick and Limbs (Made in USA since 1985), Predator and ASAT.
The early Predator line Spring green, Fall Gray and fall brown is essentially stick and limbs in different colors. The predator stuff has evolved and follows closer the hype of new patterns, while ASAT and Stick and Limbs remain unchanged. I now either buy Stick and limbs (Made in USA) or ASAT (as long it is made in the USA). I think Stick and Limbs is the older pattern and there is no reason to change it since it does do what it was designed for. And you can buy the fabric to sew your own stuff if you want.
I used to have GREAT luck with the original Predator stuff that was made out of COTTON. This new crap that is synthetic/nylon/rayon or whatever, I do not like at all. No matter what you do to it with anti UV products, the deer still seem to spot it easier than the old cotton stuff.
I have since migrated to almost all WOOL. It seems to work better for me and I like the warm, live feel of it. To each their own I suppose....
Thank you for all the responses. I wasn't necessarily asking for a specific brand or the "latest and greatest", mainly just asking from a stand point of does camo matter. When I say camo, I'm meaning the concept of camo. Does blending into your environment really matter? No matter what the color may be, does it matter if you blend into your environment? I believe this is what happened to me on this hunt. The particular camo pattern was 'zonz' from Cabelas. It is designd for western hunting (from the write up about it). I bought them use so I can't complain about the camo pattern.
My friend who I was hunting with said the particular pattern sticks out like a sore thumb.
I love the clothing. I'm wondering If I could send it somewhere to get some more dark and light transitions added in.
Does blending into your environment really matter?
I think it can be helpful, especially with wary game. Can n ot see it hurting.
Had a thought, could the camo you used have been washed in commercial laundry soap, ie. uv brighteners?
QuoteOriginally posted by MIBIGHNTR:
I used to have GREAT luck with the original Predator stuff that was made out of COTTON. This new crap that is synthetic/nylon/rayon or whatever, I do not like at all. No matter what you do to it with anti UV products, the deer still seem to spot it easier than the old cotton stuff.
I have since migrated to almost all WOOL. It seems to work better for me and I like the warm, live feel of it. To each their own I suppose....
Yep; I'm not very pleased with their new stuff either. Once my current Predator clothing becomes totally worn out I'll likely switch to ASAT.
I quit using commercial camo about 10 years ago, I haven't seen any difference in the deer picking me up but I do wear muted plaids and grays.
I have also found the rough texture of wool seems to make one less obvious to deer, less reflection perhaps. I wear nothing but wool after the weather cools off.
ive had deer walk right past me while wearing street clothes and I've had them pick me out when I was positivie I was brushed in enough. I'm actually studying the use of ground blinds and I believe there is more to camo than just us. For example, I took a pic of me back in a natural ground blind looking at the deer level and perspective. I didn't stand out at all but my bow and arrows sure did. If I noticed that right away, I guarantee you the deer do as well. I'm wondering if its not so much us they are seeing but in this case my bow which first gets their attention adn then they pick out other things that don't look right and then the gig is up. Its not just getting close to deer but we also have to draw our bow and this is where real camo comes in and I'm talking about just our clothing.
Over the past 20 years the digital imaging capabilities of the clothing industry have made great gains in being able to capture and print what I call 'photo realistic' patterns. You can hold some of the photo realistic camo at arms length and it looks just like the scenes from nature. I think this is why a lot of people buy it. Take the same camo and look at it from 20-30 yards and all you will see is a dark blob. All those neat leaves and branchs visible at arms length disappear. Then take a large pattern. Could be a big wool plaid, ASAT or Predator, at the same distance and it will still break up the human outline. I think a lot of folks get fooled by the small patterns found in photo realistic camo, but the deer don't.
I believe deer in heavily hunted areas have learned to 'look up' for danger above, and have also learned the shape of the human body outline whether in a tree or on the ground.
My favorite camo is an old wool ghillie suit from Sleeping Indian. the wool strips are big, and give much more 'texture' than the cotton ghillie suits. Downside is the wool is hot in warm weather.
If you're on the ground, wear clothing that breaks up the human outline—especially the head. Have a good background like a big tree, or brush pile. Don't need much in front of you if you are still.
QuoteOriginally posted by DanielB89:
I love the clothing. I'm wondering If I could send it somewhere to get some more dark and light transitions added in.
I wonder if you could just do it yourself. Use some dark brown or black dyes and essentially "tie-dye" the gear, putting ASAT or Predator-like stripes through the garments.
My dad used to make a lot of his own camo gear like that with his old work clothes and he probably killed more deer than anyone I know.
Just an idea
QuoteOriginally posted by katman:
Does blending into your environment really matter?
I think it can be helpful, especially with wary game. Can n ot see it hurting.
Had a thought, could the camo you used have been washed in commercial laundry soap, ie. uv brighteners?
honestly not sure as I had just receive it earlier that week(used). I know it was the warmest clothing i've ever wore. haha.
QuoteOriginally posted by not on the rug:
QuoteOriginally posted by DanielB89:
I love the clothing. I'm wondering If I could send it somewhere to get some more dark and light transitions added in.
I wonder if you could just do it yourself. Use some dark brown or black dyes and essentially "tie-dye" the gear, putting ASAT or Predator-like stripes through the garments.
that would be ideal! I would love to have a way to put the ASAT color scheme on it.
My dad used to make a lot of his own camo gear like that with his old work clothes and he probably killed more deer than anyone I know.
Just an idea [/b]
I don't get too camo crazy. Everyone has theories. I use whatever I have on hand. Most times army bdu pants and whatever jacket. How many times has a buck s
fed 20 yards away while we wore an orange vest during firearm season?? Too many times to count. If you pick a good hide and sit still most times they won't see you.
None of the synthetics will really take colors.
QuoteOriginally posted by Stumpkiller:
It's not as easy as four choices. I have killed deer at ground level within 15 yards in solid olive/sage clothing (see my avatar). Also blaze orange.
Movement trumps clothing, and odor trumps movement AND clothing.
If you are in a field of grass or forest-floor of fall maple leaves a dark camp pattern is working against you.
I agree with Stumpkiller......
Same in snow.
But if you are in a tree in October before the leaves change maybe snow camp was a poor choice.
I like a camo pattern with contrasts. I figure it breaks up my outline. And, on that subject, what is behind you can be more important that what is on you.
I said yes but I do mix my camo up. I'll wear a brown top and green bottom or vice versa. If your making a fashion statement good chance you'll get busted
I wear a mix of camo/plaid a lot, I look like a hobo half the time I'm in the woods. Can't remember the last time a deer spotted me in a tree (that I'm aware of), the ground on the other hand...
That said I try to use big, blotchy camo and big Buffalo type plaids to lessen the blob effect as much as possible. Also always wash my camo stuff in dye/scent-free detergents to get rid of the "shine" factor.
I wait for deer to get out of my driveway in the city after spending a whole day in the woods
QuoteOriginally posted by not on the rug:
1-control your odors and hunt the wind. A deer's nose is their #1 defense
2-sit still. Any movements need to be slow and deliberate
3-be quiet.
4-wear something with will break your outline up. Most camo patterns look great on the shelf, but from 40-50 yards away you just look like a big dark silhouette. Patterns like ASAT and Predator do an excellent job of creating depth and breaking a silhouette. The contrast of lights and darks make an animal (or person) look "through" you because they aren't picking up an outline anywhere.
X2... And I like Predator Camo for the depth/outline breakup ability, but wind/odor, movement, and sound trump the Camo Pattern I'm wearing... But, I also don't want to take care of the first three and get busted because I look like a new dark blob in the woods...
Don't get me wrong, I've taken critters in a lot of different camo patterns over the years... But, I've been using Predator Camo for about the last 5-6 years and have had good success... I think ASAT would work on the same concept, but I have just never used it...
I have noticed that animals react differently to me in my ASAT leafy suit vs. the darker mossy oak type coveralls I used to use. They can still pick up on movement and scent and all that, but seem to have a tough time figuring out what I am. I am convinced that having something like ASAT or Predator or Kryptek that breaks up your outline works in your favour. I like ASAT because the leafy suit fits over my brown canvas insulated work clothes.
Most game see shades of grey, and if you are wearing colors that blend in with your background, the actual color doesn't matter. Think of old black and white photography. Colorful species like birds see color, (ducks, quail, pheasants etc).
QuoteOriginally posted by Hud:
Most game see shades of grey, and if you are wearing colors that blend in with your background, the actual color doesn't matter. Think of old black and white photography. Colorful species like birds see color, (ducks, quail, pheasants etc).
It looks like deer may not be color blind. Looking a their eyes it appears they may be able to see color in the blue-green range. It should be easy enough to google the articles on this
I think UV could be partly to blame. One late season I was hunting a transition trail with lots of snow on the ground from a double bull blind. I had on a dark blue fleece pullover that appears almost black. Had a deer pick me off inside the blind not moving (shoot through screens up). I had a trail camera pointing at the blind to capture deer passing through and as a security system so to speak for the blind. I pulled the card on the way out and when I looked at pictures that pullover was glowing like a neon sign. The next weekend I killed a deer wearing wool that never knew I existed and had to move inside at twelve yards for the shot. Get in front of a trail camera that doesn't use traditional flash right at dusk to check your clothing.
Also, I like wearing a different pattern top and bottom while in a late season tree stand. Doesn't matter if camp or not, just split the human outline. Wearing the same top and bottom, even if cami, keeps the human outline present.
I believe that wool, especially that like Asbell with it's rougher surface defuses glare and helps hide a hunter.
Finally try to set up in a shadow in a tree stand or ground blind to help hide you in late season