I am trying to finish off my loadout for archery season in Maine. I have been looking at the replacement blade knives like Havalon, Outdoor edge, and Tyto. I really like the idea of being able to switch out the blades when the need comes.
Do any of you use a knives like these in the field?
How do they perform? Any advice?
I am more attracted to the Tyto knife since it is a skeletonized fixed blade.
Jeremy
I wondered about them also. Then I went bear hunting and the guide used a Havalon.
It looked like it worked very well.
So, I have bought one for my own future use.
Used a Kershaw interchangeable blade setup ~20 years ago. Worked well, but a bit weak for my taste. Never tried the new scalpel knives. I use my knives for more than field dressing, so I prefer a good full tang fixed blade. If your not proficient in sharpening blades I can understand the attraction though.
I don't like them because I need some sort of pliers to change blades with out impailiing. myself
Here is a good field condition test for my area.
Cover your hands with bacon grease, plunge them in a big bowl of ice water for 10 minutes than try to change blades
I use a Havalon all the time. You have to be careful if you are doing something like separating the ball joint of the ham because the blade will break if you torque it too much. Other than that, it's the best hunting knife I have ever had. Sharpest too!!!
Bisch
I use an outdoor Edge........ I think is the greatest thing since sliced bread! But I am sharpening challenged.
Ive used oth the large n small havlin knives n love them especially on hogs, where u having to cut through dirt mud n coarse hair n dulls a blade very quick. Like bisch said u got be carefull with the smaller thinner blade knives as u will easily break one n a joint
Used one for the first time in the field a few days ago. The Havelon worked great skinning, quartering, removing back straps and tenderloins on a cow elk. Didn't break any blades, put a new blade on when I started and didn't need tools to do it, and one blade did the job. It was hot and the job needed to get done fast and the piranta did the job.
Halavon , used it on sheep, goats bear and moose. Would never go hunting with out it
They work great. safest way to change the blade is with a set of pliers or hemostats. I still like my traditional knives, but a Havalon is pretty sweet.
I use a havalon with an assist from a fixed blade Bark River to split a joint or chop through a bone or sternum. Like mentioned above, stabbing a log to pull a dull/fatty/greasy blade works fine. I just stab the same log (used a total of three blades to quarter and debone my last elk) and then collect the blades once the work is done and it's time to clean up and pack out.
Bought Havalon Piranta and their filet knife whatever it's called to replace my heavy nice knives in my quest to lighten my load, pack was just too damn heavy. I love the idea of the Tyto, but afraid my hands would cramp up on that skinny handle! The outdoor edge model is supposed to have more robust blade system!
I am sure they work incredibly well, but I like custom knives I like to sharpen my blades too, so life is too short to use an ugly knife.
Replacements razors have a place in my tool bag- not in my hunting pack. They don't impress me too much.
Havalons are awesome. I hse my Piranta all the time. Lije Bisch said, the blades will break on you if theyre torqued. Talk about sharp though, good lord. The Outdoor Edge version is pretty nice too, i just like the smaller havalon better for weight and ease of use in tight quarters.
One of the 1st things I was taught MANY years ago, when I was given my 1st knife... (a brand new, official Boy Scout pocket knife) Was how to sharpen it!!!!! It saddens me that many "outdoorsmen" do not possess the simple skill, to sharpen a cutting tool??? In this day & age, are we so rushed, or "lazy" that we can't learn (and pass along) simple outdoor skills??? (Sharpening, Firebuilding, Reading a Map, Using a Compass? etc) As time goes on... I just see each generation getting "dumber"... But heck, I'm just an old guy? Maybe in the next few hundred years, we'll "discover fire"???
Just one old fart's oppinion.....
What woodchucker said!
I'm with Felix.
QuoteOriginally posted by woodchucker:
One of the 1st things I was taught MANY years ago, when I was given my 1st knife... (a brand new, official Boy Scout pocket knife) Was how to sharpen it!!!!! It saddens me that many "outdoorsmen" do not possess the simple skill, to sharpen a cutting tool??? In this day & age, are we so rushed, or "lazy" that we can't learn (and pass along) simple outdoor skills??? (Sharpening, Firebuilding, Reading a Map, Using a Compass? etc) As time goes on... I just see each generation getting "dumber"... But heck, I'm just an old guy? Maybe in the next few hundred years, we'll "discover fire"???
Just one old fart's oppinion.....
While I agree with the point you're making, there is a time and a place for everything, including innovation. Here in Arizona time is not on your side when it comes to preserving meat. If I'm hunting solo and have a four mile one way trip to my truck, then I want to be as time efficient as possible when gutting, quartering, skinning and deboning my meat. Last September the temperature was almost 80F where I killed my bull. It's been in the nineties where I'm hunting coues deer this year. If I can shave off a few minutes here and there getting meat cooled off and packed out, I'll use the right tool to save time. I can and do sharpen every edged tool I own, use a map and compass, carry two sharp fixed blade knives and can start a fire any way you like, but I'm not above using the right tool for the job.
When I posted this thread I knew it would take a someone would post a "learn how to sharpen a knife" comment.
I can't agree more honestly. I own a metric butt ton of knives, I even make knives. I do know how to sharpen a blade.
However, there are times when I don't want to sharpen a blade. Being cold, bloody and loosing light is not a situation where I would WANT to resharpen a blade. If I HAD to, well that is a different story.
Being a knife nut, I was just wondering if other hunters on this board find them useful. This board seems to be more level headed than some I frequent. Less apt to rush out and buy the latest and greatest. If these types of knives made it in packs of this forums members, then I know it has to fit a nitch.
As for learning and passing on outdoors skills. Man, your talking my language. I truly enjoy passing on the wilderness living and bushcraft skills I have learned over the years.
I too see the next generation "getting dumber" and I am not even that old.
Thanks to everyone, especially woodchucker.
Jeremy
QuoteOriginally posted by dresnor:
When I posted this thread I knew it would take a someone would post a "learn how to sharpen a knife" comment.
I can't agree more honestly. I own a metric butt ton of knives, I even make knives. I do know how to sharpen a blade.
However, there are times when I don't want to sharpen a blade. Being cold, bloody and loosing light is not a situation where I would WANT to resharpen a blade. If I HAD to, well that is a different story.
Being a knife nut, I was just wondering if other hunters on this board find them useful. This board seems to be more level headed than some I frequent. Less apt to rush out and buy the latest and greatest. If these types of knives made it in packs of this forums members, then I know it has to fit a nitch.
As for learning and passing on outdoors skills. Man, your talking my language. I truly enjoy passing on the wilderness living and bushcraft skills I have learned over the years.
I too see the next generation "getting dumber" and I am not even that old.
Thanks to everyone, especially woodchucker.
Jeremy
Couldn't agree more, while I'm not a knife nut, I do know how to sharpen and I'm mainly went this route for backpack elk hunting, I'm sure I cut at least a pound of weight from my backpack load just from this switch alone!
Ok... Maybe I stepped on some toes? Certainly not my intention!!! Just wondering...?? Just what kinds of knives do you guys buy, wear, use, that #1 weigh so much? #2 need to be touched up so often??? I'm and old guy, & lost my need for the "latest & greatest" many years ago!!! Most of the gear I've got, I've been using for years. I have an ML knife that was given to me by my TadGang Brother, adkmountainken about 10 years ago. During hunting season it gets used a LOT!!! It rarely if ever needs to be touched up, and guts & skins several deer each year. It'll shave hair any day of the week, even after these chores. The 1st year Kenny gave it to me, our Brother "Bowspirit" killed a porcupine... He used my ML knife 2 skin it, and about 3/4 through, it looked like it might have been getting a little dull? Literally 6 strokes on my Grandpa's old razor hone, it was shaving sharp again!!! My son Tyler was given an ML knife, by my TradGang Brother frenchymanny. It was shaving sharp when he got it, and he keeps it that way! When he shot his 1st deer, as he was gutting it, It seemed like was dull? I looked at the edge and could see light reflecting back at me...?? I asked him what he had beating his knife against... He told me that his Uncle had used it to cut ribs against the steel cooking grate in camp the night before!!! After chewing him out and to tell his Uncle "use your own damn knife" he used mine and was done in 5 minutes.
As for weight? That razor hone might weight 3oz. Our knives? Maybe 6 or 7oz. They go on our belts and we never notice them? Also, in all my years, I have NEVER carried more than 1 knife. Like I said before... Never meant to step on toes! Just seems silly (to ME) to carry a knife, with extra blades, (that you may not need) instead of a stone? As was also mentioned, if you did need them, pliers to change out? Then you have to pack up all those used blades & pack them out? Wouldn't it be easier to just touch up the edge of a slightly dull knife if needed, then return it to its sheath when you're done using it?
No offense meant, just asking...??
If you are referring to me, I do not consider my toes stepped on.
These knives just seem popular and I need an excuse to pull the trigger on one. LOL
Also, I want to get into trapping and I think one of these knives would be great for skinning small critters.
No harm no foul woodchucker!
Jeremy
Hey Brother! Good a reason as any, to buy something!!!
QuoteOriginally posted by woodchucker:
Ok... Maybe I stepped on some toes? Certainly not my intention!!! Just wondering...?? Just what kinds of knives do you guys buy, wear, use, that #1 weigh so much? #2 need to be touched up so often??? I'm and old guy, & lost my need for the "latest & greatest" many years ago!!! Most of the gear I've got, I've been using for years. I have an ML knife that was given to me by my TadGang Brother, adkmountainken about 10 years ago. During hunting season it gets used a LOT!!! It rarely if ever needs to be touched up, and guts & skins several deer each year. It'll shave hair any day of the week, even after these chores. The 1st year Kenny gave it to me, our Brother "Bowspirit" killed a porcupine... He used my ML knife 2 skin it, and about 3/4 through, it looked like it might have been getting a little dull? Literally 6 strokes on my Grandpa's old razor hone, it was shaving sharp again!!! My son Tyler was given an ML knife, by my TradGang Brother frenchymanny. It was shaving sharp when he got it, and he keeps it that way! When he shot his 1st deer, as he was gutting it, It seemed like was dull? I looked at the edge and could see light reflecting back at me...?? I asked him what he had beating his knife against... He told me that his Uncle had used it to cut ribs against the steel cooking grate in camp the night before!!! After chewing him out and to tell his Uncle "use your own damn knife" he used mine and was done in 5 minutes.
As for weight? That razor hone might weight 3oz. Our knives? Maybe 6 or 7oz. They go on our belts and we never notice them? Also, in all my years, I have NEVER carried more than 1 knife. Like I said before... Never meant to step on toes! Just seems silly (to ME) to carry a knife, with extra blades, (that you may not need) instead of a stone? As was also mentioned, if you did need them, pliers to change out? Then you have to pack up all those used blades & pack them out? Wouldn't it be easier to just touch up the edge of a slightly dull knife if needed, then return it to its sheath when you're done using it?
No offense meant, just asking...??
WC, these knives weigh basically nothing and have a light weight scalpel basically for blades, they don't add up to the weight of the leather sheath my knives of Alaska combo come with! Plus I don't have to carry a sharpening system. You get up to 11K+ feet in elevation, even ounces matter! I still have a Buck folding knife in my binocular harness, but if I ever actually kill an elk again, I know I can break it down and debone it without worrying about my knife getting dulled, especially if I used it to cut something else before I tag out!
My guess is most of the guys who poo poo this type of blade dont do a lot of backpack hunting many miles and thousands of vertical feet from a truck. See how long those knives stay shaving sharp when youre breaking down a feral pig in a pitch black laurel thicket. Or boning out an entire moose. Any way I can shave weight from my hunting pack, Im going to. Bear season starts here in Ga in four days. Ill have a havalon in my pack when I start climbing
Well... HISTORY tells us... 200 years ago, (1700-1800's)
A good sharp knife (as in 1) was an esential part of EVERY Hunter, Trapper, Explorer, Outdoorsmans, kit. It was used (and abused, I'm sure!) every day, for ever chore & task, where something needed cutting. It was strong rugged & dependable. Knives were not something to be cast aside, when they were no longer "sharp". They were a tool that was important to their daily survival. With not much more than a knife, tomahawk, gun, powder, shot, flint&steel, and a blanket, these men ventured into the WILDERNESS, for weeks, months, sometimes years, at a time!!! These men were farther away from CIVILIZATION, than you will EVER be from your truck.
As far as me "poo pooing" your havalon... My good sturdy, sharp knife, will be around longer than you'll be able to get new blades for yours!!! (and mine will still be sharp)
Alas my Brothers, to each their own... If it works for you, that's fine with me. I'll stick with my knife thank you, it's always served me well.
I'd love to have one of those Havalon (every time I read that name I think of 10W30 oil :D ) knives.
The problems for me are that I've got way too many really fine knives... belt and pocket, I'm not apt to be carrying a pack anywhere any time soon, they are a bit pricey for my budget and I'd probably sharpen them anyway...I know that's just wrong but it's the way I am. ;)
I honestly don't like them. I much prefer a quality handmade knife in a quality steel.
With modern steels its very easy to have a knife that can and will hold an edge thru 3 deer, a couple pigs, or a weekend filled of small game. What this means to me as a hunter is that I can go on a hunt and NEVER have to sharpen a blade while cleaning animals, even if I'm fortunate enough to shoot more than one before cleaning them. I can sharpen them at home or on week long camps at base camp under firelight and I don't need a pocket stone or any other gizmo in my pack.
Also a quality fixed blade is stronger meaning it can be used for more hard use tasks should I need to, fire prep, etc. This means it becomes more than just a skinning knife, but a true multi-purpose, potentially life saving tool when combined with my knowledge and basic woodsmanship. Replaceable bladed knives and folders simply don't hold up to this kind of use.
Lastly a quality fixed blade, properly made and properly sealed has NOWHERE for water/blood/guts to leak into. This makes it much, much easier to clean in the field with a creek, snow, a moist towellete, etc. I don't have to worry about blood and guts getting in my sheath or nooks and crannies to carry bacteria/virus that can contaminate my foods at camp because they are so EASY to keep clean everywhere unlike folders and replaceable bladed knives.
As for the weight issue, I don't find a decent fixed blade to be THAT much heavier given the many preferable attributes. For example a Havalon is about 3 ounces. A Mora Companion is 4 ounces with a sheath. For ONE OUNCE you get a lot more versatility and aren't reliant upon buying replacement blades. It costs less and has exceptional steel. Even as a knife maker I own a few Mora knives and keep them stashed wherever I think I may need one. In fact I keep a stainless Mora in my cooler that I use for hauling meat just in case I loose my handmade skinner or have a friend need a knife.
The havalons work great. I use them at work. For hunting though I have a couple knives that will always be with me just because they are my hunting knives and they hopefully always will be.
Woodchucker, I hope I didn't come off as being snarky in reply to your post. It wasn't meant that way. While I agree that history teaches us that the mountain men carried a couple bades and kept them well maintained if they wanted to survive, times (maybe unfortunately) have changed. I can't afford to take months to go into the backcountry on horse, I only get a limited time and space to hunt. For me being successful means packing in multiple miles without pack animals and weight is critical for today's hunter. When I hunt deer in the midwest and I'm not packing my camp on my back I use a single fixed blade. The other benefit to a havalon is that each replacement blade is sterile and sealed. My fixed blade knife gets used for multiple tasks and it's nice to know that I have a clean blade for meat. Also, if you get a buch of guts on a blade it's a simple swap to a new one. To each his own though.
QuoteOriginally posted by woodchucker:
One of the 1st things I was taught MANY years ago, when I was given my 1st knife... (a brand new, official Boy Scout pocket knife) Was how to sharpen it!!!!! It saddens me that many "outdoorsmen" do not possess the simple skill, to sharpen a cutting tool??? In this day & age, are we so rushed, or "lazy" that we can't learn (and pass along) simple outdoor skills??? (Sharpening, Firebuilding, Reading a Map, Using a Compass? etc) As time goes on... I just see each generation getting "dumber"... But heck, I'm just an old guy? Maybe in the next few hundred years, we'll "discover fire"???
Just one old fart's oppinion.....
Well, I gues if you know how to do it, and are good at it, it is easy! I guess I just am not an "outdoorsman"in your eyes because I can't sharpen a butter knife without the help of a KME, and I was never fortunate enough to be in the Boy Scouts when I was a kid! Oh, well!!!!
SMH
Bisch
Agreed, Brother!!! I understand The need to "travel light"!!! Years ago, hunting NY's Adirondack Mtns, and the "Big Woods" of Maine, I headed into the woods with my rifle, shells, knife, compass, matches, candle, magnizium fire starter, and a 10' piece of rope. I was miles back in & when it got dark, I found cover, built a fire, and waited for morning. The Moose River Plains/Cedar River Flow in the Adirondacks is 25 miles from Rt.30 in Indian Lake, to Rt.28 in Old Forge. From my parent's house in Maine, it was 16 miles up the Union River, to the next road. Now I'm not as young as I once was, but trust me when I say Ive been "way back in there" many times in my younger days... A good knife always served me well, and I wouldn't even think about going in without one.
Oh C'mon Bisch!!!!! We've been here a LONG time!!! I may poke fun, but I don't throw stones, Brother!!! Heck, you could use a Sheetrock knife, I don't care!!! I was really just simply asking questions because I try to stay out of that "latest & greatest" trap, and honestly never even seen one of these havalon things!!!!!
I use a havalon for caping in the field but prefer a full tang fixed blade knife for all the other work. I use the gutless method on all the game I take here in Alaska, as you know most of our animals are large and the havalon is just to flimsy in my opinion, for that type of work.
They are brilliant. On short hunts I chuck one in my pocket, they are lite and always sharp. On week or longer trips though is where they come into their own. I will carry an ordinary knife for heavy work but the avalon will do most of the work and there is no need to carry any sort of sharpening system. Cape out a couple of trophies at midnight and you soon learn of their merit.
The Havalon Piranta is a great knife. I use it ALL the time in the taxidermy shop. The small size is perfect for caping heads and doing all the fine, precise cutting. When it gets dull, trash the old blade, insert new and get back to work. Saves a world of time over sharpening knives constantly.
In the field, I prefer a traditional knife for field dressing and skinning down to the neck. Different tools for different jobs.
The Havalon knives remind me of replaceable blade broadheads and I gave up on those a long time ago.
I have many knives...too many perhaps. Some fine custom blades and some off the shelf blades that I have had since childhood. Several special purpose blades picked up during 30 years of military service. Others that were my Father's knives. I have a Tyto skeleton handle wrapped in orange para-cord, an orange Havalon Piranta with spare blades that fit both knives in my kill kit. Its nice to not have to take the time to sharpen a blade when time is of the essence. I also have and frequently carry a G. Fred Asbel trade knife that is the easiest steel to sharpen quickly, durable, nostalgic, and suitable for heavier duty as needed when dressing and cutting up a harvested animal. However, the lighter replaceable blade knife gets the majority of the work done just fine. Both knife designs have earned their place in my pack. The Tyto and the Havalon are always in the kill kit!
Love mine.
always clean the blade when done, a clean blade is easy to change, a dirty blade, not so much. First deer I skinned I put it back in my pack and didn't change the blade. When I went to use it again, I needed pliers to get the blade out. Since then I run it under hot water when I get home and pull the blade out and scrub it so it doesn't stick.
they are a great skinning tool.
oz
I was checking out the Gerber offering recently, looks like your don't need pliers to change the blade on their model.
I don't have any replaceable blade knives outside my tool belt, but would like one for caping and such. Will still stick to my trusted 3 inch fixed blade Buck for general dressing chores and quite often my cheap Mora for quartering and boning.
I love my custom knives, always have...I even enjoy sharpening them believe it or not..but...I have used the Outdoor Edge knives for a couple years now, and I do like them. Super razor sharp for sure, but imo, razor sharp just dulls quicker. However, the Outdoor Edge bladed have sort of a large defined bevel that is easy to lay flat on my small folding diamond sharpener, and in 2 or 3 strokes that thing is sharp as heck again, so instead of changing blades all the time, I have found that this is a good deal.
On changing blades, on the Outdoor Edge, you push a button on the knife and it releases the blade, so it is locked in pretty good, preventing blade from coming loose. The con to this is that if you dont clean it, it can get gummed up and a little hard to push but no biggie.
Yes you can break a blade, they are super thin scapel like but there is always a tradeoff for performance.
What I am always concerned about is discarding the used blades. I hope people pack them out and not just throw them on the ground.
jmo
Mark
I've got a Havalon Piranta and use it some. I always break blades, but that's my fault for being too rough with it. I normally just use my Case pocketknife. Just how I was raised I guess. All the older folks I hunted with when I was a kid just used their pocketknife for everything.
So you need pliers to change them, gotta be really careful cause they break and they will, need extra blades and somewhere to put the used ones unless you just litter them to the ground.
Just don't get the attraction unless like someone said its about ability to sharpen which I would understand if it wasn't this forum. Please don't think I'm judging cause I'm not.
Used scalpels a long time, I understand they're sharp but so many disadvantages in the woods.
To each his own though.
I wasn't sure about them until I watched my hunting partners bear guide skin and butcher his bear without even changing blades.
As a side note, lack of "edge holding" in a hunting knife is usually a result of cutting/rubbing into bone when field dressing, skinning, butchering, ect.
I make my own blades from 1095 & O1, with my own heat treat in a charcoal forge and tempered in my oven (Not the best "edge retention" steels or controlled process). Last year testing out a "new" design, I gutted one buck the night before, skinned and butchered 2 deer the following day using the same knife with no sharpening in between.
Not tooting my own horn, just pointing out to no one in particular that care when cutting up your animals will greatly extend your edge life if you're having issues. The profile of your edge matters as well. The hollow grinds you see on a lot of off the shelf hunting knives will be very sharp with a fresh edge, but will dull quickly if abused.
I used the Havalon Piranta on my cow elk last year and it worked really well as long as I didn't torque the blade. I didn't like having to use the plyers on my Leatherman tool to safely replace the blade.
This year I'll be using an Outdoor Edge Razor Blaze replaceable blade knife. It's got a heavier duty surgical steel blade and a button on the handle to release the blade for safe replacement.
Well, I guess I will find out for myself. I ordered a Havalon Piranta last night on the bay for $29 shipped.
Still going to bring at least one nice fixed blade to be safe.
Thanks for the replies everyone!
Jeremy