I cant get good bareshaft flight at all with my 50 lb bear, ive litteraly tried everything, i thought they were too stiff so i ordered some 500 beamens nope they are weak, i can get good flight out of the 3 rivers trad only arrows for that bow in 400 spine but the blems do not fly like bullets however i can get them too out of my bob lee can someone please help
Kyle,
From your post it seems to me that you are mixing three different shafts with two different bows.
Start over...
You need to find out what each bow needs by knowing the variations of each bow (individually) that would point you to a specific shaft to try with that specific bow.
If you can provide bow model, listed draw weight at a specified draw length and the "centershot" (the measured distance from the strike plate to where the string lines up with the center of the limbs when strung) many folks here can steer you in the right direction.
bear super grizzly 50 lb at 28 which is my draw bow is cut to center.
500 shouldn't be weak.
there kicking tail left and impacting right
Tony the bow is center cut the string lines right up
- BOP length of arrows
- Tip weight including inserts
30 inches 175 grain head with 20 grain insert
"Generic" carbon 400s with the data you give are nearly perfect in spine.
Carbon 500s appear to be 15 dynamic# light for that bow.
Assuming 12 strand FF
It sounds like your Trad Only 400 arrow set up is the Arrow for you and your Super Grizzly. ;)
Maybe you can plug that information into the 3R spine calculating tool and then try to come up with a dynamic match for the Gold tip Traditional Classics? you are wanting to use.?
3R questions and answers for the Supper Grizzly put the Super Griz cut 1/16 past center. the 3R spine calculator put the Bob Lees at 1/16 to1/8 past center, depending on bow.
Maybe you can use the 3R tool to do some reverse engineering from the Happy shooting combos you already have to come up with close dynamics for the shaft you want to shoot? :dunno:
There are many variables and then the Shaft Diameters are different also.
http://www.3riversarchery.com/dynamic-spine-arrow-calculator-from-3rivers-archery.html
Agree with pinky, quit beating yourself up and shoot the arrow the bow is calling for.
Kyle you didn't state what the 400 Blems are doing stiff/weak?
The 500 you state are showing weak. Build out your side plate to compensate and those will work.
What are you using on the 500? Point wt. and lenght?
QuoteOriginally posted by South MS Bowhunter:
Kyle you didn't state what the 400 Blems are doing stiff/weak?
The 500 you state are showing weak. Build out your side plate to compensate and those will work.
What are you using on the 500? Point wt. and lenght?
All good questions! I assumed (incorrectly) that the point weight and bop were the same.
the 400s blems are showing weak as well they all go nock left tried 145 to 250 grains 30 inch arrow
There was a post here recently relating to older Bear bows and the phenomenon we are discussing.
I'll try to find it and bring it up. Perhaps it'll shed some light on this topic...
Kyle,
What is the center cut and draw wt @28" of your Bob Lee?
You' did not mention what brand of blems you are shooting. I won't mention a specific brand on this page either. But, I ordered blems a while back from a well know company. I assumed the blems meant that they were misprinted or discolored, not that they were poorly constructed. What I got was 10 correctly marked for spine. The other two were marked for the same spine but one was ten pounds heavier and the last one was 20 heavier. Additionally, when I spine tested them they varied in spine as much as five pounds when measuring them at 90 degrees and 180 degrees from the first measurement. I don't suggest that is your problem but it is something to consider.
this is only a year old bow
Kyle,
Ok are the 400 blems nock left bare shaft? If so what is your impact point? If it is impacting where your looking then fletch them up and shoot them.
Tail nock left or right doesn't matter it where there impacting.
If your getting a nock up or down then adjust your noc point to correct and shoot them..
i keep getting nock high i put a 250 grain head on bareshaft it curved 2 feet to the right vs the fletched
Put a 175 point on with just a regular insert no extra wt. and see what you get.
Move your Noc point up about an 1/8 and see if that cures your nock high. If not move it up some more till it goes away.
Of course this is all for nothing if your not consistent in your form.
they dont fly good at all neither do the 500s
Have you tried cutting the 500's to stiffen them? If your a real 28" draw you can afford to cut some of that 30" shaft. You only need about an inch for BH.
If you keep getting nock high it might just be that way for you. One axis of confusion at a time. Seems like you call a shaft weak and put more weight up front to stiffen it? Why not put a 125 on the 500 and see where that goes?
i got a 200 grain head on the 400s that are impacting 2-3 inches left of the bareshaft im right handed, the bareshaft is not flying like a bullet though.i also get much better accuracy with the fletched with a heavier head on say 250 grains but the bareshaft flight is erratic idk what to do anymore
This isn't the first post where you report difficulty tuning arrows. Are you sure your form is good enough for accurate results bare shafting?
Lighter front end or shorter .500s should work. So should the .400s at 30 inches if you load them like you're loading the .500s.
so am i still too weak? if i put a heavy head on the fletched they shoot very well but they dont group with the fletched
just shot them at 25 yards bareshaft is impacting way right of fletched i dont see how a 400 spine would be so weak for a 50 lb bow
You need to lighten the point weight to stiffen the shaft or cut it down. Like others have said, don't worry so much about how the bareshaft is flying, instead focus on where it is impacting.
If I were only 2-3 inches off my fletched shafts at 25 yards, I would fletch them up and shoot. But I do not shoot competition, so 3 inches is still a kill on a deer.
As far as the spine goes, i shoot 48# at my draw, out of a Omega longbow and 400's are perfect, 500's will miss by a foot or more, so don't be afraid to play with the 400's or even stiffer spines.
they fly great fletched from 250 grains and up
I get reasonable flight out of uncut fletched 400s and 500s from my 38# @28" longbow; I draw nearly 31" from a high wrist recurve, not really sure on the longbow. But bare shaft, the bow needs 400s. 500s are underspined even with 100 gr points. The good news is all my bows are happy with 400s using different weight points.
As has been said, if your arrows show weak, lighten up your point weight or start cutting the shaft down. I run uncut 32" shafts because of my draw length, so I handle tuning with weight. And 5.5" shield cut fletching, that'll stabilize about anything.
so if y bareshaft fly like absolute crap but my fletched impact where they do or close there still good to shoot?
how would they be weak out of a lighter bow and my heavier bow shoots the same head and flies perfect bareshaft? my other bow is 4 pounds heavier and alot faster
QuoteOriginally posted by nhbuck1:
so if y bareshaft fly like absolute crap but my fletched impact where they do or close there still good to shoot?
FWIW, I never bareshaft, but I always buy / cut /tweak arrows that are verified close or perfect for my setup by using Stu's Calculator.
I have had many different longbows, mostly ASL which vary greatly in length, draw weight and/or center cut. Many different recurves, same thing...some cut to center, some way past center (actually measured, not eyeballed)
They are all different but all shoot just fine, stabilize quickly.
Good luck on your project!
How do you grip the bow? The Super Griz is a lighter bow than the Bob Lee (assuming you have a TD). I had an issue once with torquing the riser. On my '66 Kodiak I was shooting, it had almost no impact on my shooting (that I noticed at the time). I started shooting a Hoots recurve that is unbelievably slim and light weight, and I started getting extreme weak readings, but about one out of every five bare shaft shots would fly perfect. That's how I learned that lighter mass weight bows exaggerate any issue with form. After working out the torquing issue shooting the Hoots, my shooting improved with the Kodiak as well. If nothing like that is going on, I'd say start cutting the shaft down a 1/4" at a time. I have two vintage bows, 53&55#, but I only draw around 27-27 1/2". Both of them show weak with 30" 400 spines if you go over 150 gr up front. I shoot 31" 340s with 250 gr points. I bet you could get yours working fine if you go down to 29-29 1/2" or so.
I shoot the super grizzly 50@28.
GT blems 5575 (400) 29 1/8" bop, 50 gr brass insert, 175 BH.
They fly quite well.
How's your form/release . I get false weak when I pluck the string.
So its possible this bow likes a stiffer arrow vs my Lee? Even though its a lot lighter?
YES! Feed the bow what it wants not what you want it to.
http://www.acsbows.com/bareshaftplaning.html
https://vimeo.com/70422708
you can tune by making other changes building out a rest or going thinner/softer watch the vidio and fallow the bareshaft guild lines above it should help.
jmo but if your fletched arrows fly decent but your bare shafts fly horrible its more then likely bad form release etc.. fletching corrects a lot of mistakes. Just forget bare shafting and adjust your arrows to shoot good fletched..
my bows each decide which arrow and which point weight they like and that's the arrow and point weight that bow will shoot till the bow is sold, traded or dies, one bow with a skinny string just loves 300gr point weights on heavier spined arrows .
As others have said, you must have good form to get reliable feedback from bareshaft tuning. You may want to work on developing good form and only then worry about tuning.
How can I tune with just fletched arrows?
I personally think that most issues arise from release, grip, etc. if you are sometimes getting good flight from the same arrows then that is a good indicator. I continue to wrestle with this issue, I was getting false readings on my bareshafts due to my release. May not be your problem but if you know your spine should be correct for the bow then focus on other things a little.
you could paper tune (but with a form issue you still have problems)
https://stalkerstickbows.com/techtune/tuning-tips/
QuoteOriginally posted by nhbuck1:
How can I tune with just fletched arrows?
Stop worrying about tuning.
You can easily get close to what your bow needs with the info you have been given thus far.....then shoot and keep on shooting paying attention to details of form. You need to study the basic essentials of becoming a good and consistent shooter. Its not rocket science but it is mandatory.
When you have learned and trained your body to work in concert with your eye (mind) according to the basic principals you can learn here, then see how it goes.
Tradgang has a metric ton of good information / feedback at your disposal. Embrace it!
Enjoy the trip....things will start to gel eventually
Tony is spot on, I will add your required tune will change as your form develops. Right now just do your best to wear the bow out paying attention to grooving a solid consistent form.
Getting someone that knows form essentials to coach you might resolve much of your issues. No short cuts in this area-- as ive said before, you cannot hope to get reliable information from a bareshaft until you have solid form and release. I think this is what many others have offered also.
how am i supposed to hunt then if i cant tune? i hit what im looking at
If you hit what youre looking at with broadheads you may be just fine. Just enjoy-- although im a believer in bareshaft tuning, i don't think its something you have to do.
QuoteOriginally posted by nhbuck1:
... i hit what i'm looking at
Well, that is a good start! :thumbsup:
I'm trying to figure out what you are worrying about.
P.S.---there are many great shots that never bareshaft an arrow--a lot of guys that shoot woodies (myself included) don't bareshaft wood arrows. Bareshafting is just one tool that you can use to check your form and tune. If your fletched arrows with broadheads fly well and to the same spot as your field points and that happens to be where you are looking I'd be happy with the set up.
Are you shooting 3 under??? If you are you should be shooting a double arrow nock. Believe me, it eliminates alot of arrow flight problems.
what if broaheads arent flying right then?
QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Van Dort:
QuoteOriginally posted by nhbuck1:
How can I tune with just fletched arrows?
Stop worrying about tuning.[/b]
And now you are focusing on broadhead flight???
:thumbsup: