Got wind of a discussion on a different site (I don't go there--actually can't, after posting an "inconvenient fact"). Anyhow...
There are claims of this or that material not having enough elasticity and damaging bows.
The fact of the matter is, from original Fast Flight (SK65 Spectra) to the very latest - Mercury -(SK99)...and EVERYTHING in-between (SK75, SK78, SK90)...NONE OF THEM ARE A RUBBER BAND.
By that I mean none of them stretch/recover at the shot. The ONLY material on the market with any degree of elasticity is polyester (Dacron). Almost all of the initial "stretch" you get from a HMPE string in the beginning is air/wax/slack coming out. Very little is the material itself stretching (at least with a reasonable strand count and load). To get these materials to stretch at all, you have to apply a load and wait. It's a very slow process, as is the recovery. Not something that happens instantly at the shot.
That being said, I don't cover the warranty on anyone's bow. I'm not telling anyone to use a material that the bowyer says will void your warranty. I just wish some of these people would educate themselves a little better before posting their "wisdom" on message boards. :banghead:
I can imagine your frustration. People will get so set in a particular mode of thinking that they refuse to see facts. I still chuckle when folks are incredulous when I tell them selfbows love FF.
Yes, it must be hard being in the bow string business these days.
Chad, what does non B 50/55 strings do? My guess is that they make the bow faster?
The claim is that a string needs elongation of .03 or greater to be "safe". Measured at 80% of the total load which is calculated(guessed) at. Problem is as Chad said the elongation needs time to occur - more time than a shot takes. Then we are asked to believe that a difference of aprox .005 - pretty much statistically insignificant makes one dangerous to a bow? Especially when it can't occur anyway in the time frame of a shot?
I will not tell anyone to violate their written warranty. I would suggest looking at the facts and making your own decision.
Broken bows are the sort of "facts" we need here.
Jon, the main benefit (IMO) you get from HMPE and HMPE/LCP blends are: increased stability, increased durability, and reduced vibration (hand shock). You can pick up a little performance increase, but for me the other benefits far outweigh that one--to the point I'd use these materials if they were slower.
9W9, that's one thing that makes it even more frustrating. I have selfbows that I use "high performance" materials on. The only thing different is they have tip overlays--one antler, one horn, one osage. They have held up just fine.
I've also been shooting a Samick Journey for the past 5 years or so--ever since BCY-X came out. I bought the bow just to test the new material. My thought was, if a bow that retails for less than $150 can handle it, it should be good for any. That's all the bow has ever had on it. I draw approximately 31", shooting arrows that are around 8 gpp.
MGF, bows break. I've seen several over the years, had a few break on me. I can only recall one I had that broke with the "FF" string (the rest had dacron), that that failure was obviously not string related. It was a self bow, and it just had a weak spot in the limb near the fadeout.
There's just a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding about strings and string materials these days, sometimes coming from sources you would think would know better.
Chad
Yep he chooses to void warrantee for the strangest reasons. Our warrantee is if the bow breaks we replace it. Period.
Had one guy have his hunting partner run over his bow in elk camp in CO. I sent a replacement to the closest town and he was only down one day.
Mike
That's one heck of a warranty! Shows confidence in your product.
To put Steve's numbers in layman's terms; .005 (Five thousandths)...a normal human hair is .003 to .005 thick. Some are saying that the difference in a bow breaking or not.
Wow Mike, now that's standing behind your product, nice to know as I do have some of your bows.
Thanks for the information Chad, I was going to post the question in hopes you would answer. Interesting a company is looking for 'other reasons' to explain breakage of there product when many other bowyers are not seeing a problem.
mgf, I have had 2 bows break from this company couple years ago, and this was with the strings they are now recommending. After Mike's post loving my Dryad's more and more, lol.
I've never seen a post where a dacron string ripped down the center of the limb but I have seen plenty where a limited stretch string has. Owners usually say the bow "blew up". Wrong. Bows blow up when they delaminate. When a string rips down the center of the limb, it's the string. I love ff strings on my modern bows, but I won't use them on my vintage bows again.
Different ballgame there Joe. I don't suggest using high performance strings of any type on bows that weren't designed for them. A big difference, as I understand it, is the angle of the string grooves. Most old bows have the string grooves cut straight across at a 90 degreen angle. Bow's built for HMPE strings have it cut at more like a 45.
Anyhow, what I'm referring to is some saying that one type of HMPE material is fine, but another will break the bow, and the difference in how much "give" they have is literally the width of a human hair.
I agree with string angle at the nocks being key. A lot of the older bows were at almost a 90 degree angle. I think having a smooth transition into the belly of the limb makes more difference than anything.
LBR- my bad, I misunderstood where this was heading. I thought it was yet another thread saying how it was ok to use ff on any bow. Carry on...
I would like to mention that Chad does a first class job with his strings. My bow really likes the BCY-X, and I like it even more. Thanks again Chad.
On longbows that I tillered myself, I have a cam shaped string groove. I have been shooting many thousands of shots with Chad's padded BCY strings. After reading this, I checked them for any kind of wear, I cannot see anything at all. Perhaps it is due to my less than 27" draw, Perhaps the way Chad pads them, but there have thousands of shots out of those bows and I have nothing to bitch about. A couple of those I recently gave away, one with a Chad string on it. But just for fun, if a tip does ever crack or split, the string will be blamed. Over the years, I have redone the string grooves for guys on a number of longbows that had never seen anything but B50. In every case worn strings and grit under the string was to blame. Even though one the guys is trying to wear the bow out before next deer season arrives. Just for safety sake, I called the recipients and reminded them to clean the string grooves and use the string was that came with the bow.
I have a vintage Howatt that split down the limb from the string groove. Pretty sure it was not a FF string since the string dated to pre 1980.
String tech has come a long way since the last time I paid any attention. I've only used strings from the mfg on my Blacktails, and my Treadway is too new to have needed a new string. I've made several twist strings from B50 for vintage bows, and I do have some fast flight spools for the next time I need a string on one of my newer bows. I haven't used enough various materials to have any opinion on performance differences.
I have learned not to let my 5yo daughter hold my bow without watching her, she likes to stick the tip in the dirt and spin the bow!