Just read an article on wood arrows in TBM. The undertone of the article (Troubleshooting Wood Arrows) is that wood arrows shoot poorly compared to other shaft materials. It's stated that "no two wood arrows will fly exactly the same, even if the spine and weight are identical and he finishes the article with "If I can get three out of a dozen (wood) arrows to fly true and group tightly when tipped with broadheads, I'm satisfied.
My question is, how do wood arrows compare to carbon and aluminum arrows? I only shoot wood arrows and have since the early 1980's and I am wondering if I'm just not good enough of a shot to notice how poorly my wood arrows shoot. I can make a dozen broadhead arrows and they all seem to fly fine for me but would my accuracy improve with carbon?
Gordon... much ado about nothing! A creative writing instructor once told me, "controversy sells". He was right.
Charlie, that's what I wondered. I love making and shooting wood arrows but have thought about getting a dozen carbons just to see how they shot.
Gordon,
Don't do it! You will loose the romance of the wood arrow quickly. I've had and shot some of the best wood arrows built in years past. There has never been a wood arrow that I have shot that is anywhere close to a well tuned carbon arrow.
Mike
I have to say that I shoot wood poorly. It is not a nock on the wood, just can't seem to get the proper spine combo, I guess.
That being said; I have many friends that shoot wood as good as carbons.
Man has fed himself for thousands of years using wood arrows.
Shoot what makes you happy.
I shot wood exclusively for 20 years then I got fed up with poor quality of cedar. My last bundle was actually stuck together.
I switched to aluminum and instantly shot better than ever! I thought I was a fair shot before but the aluminum turned me into a good shot. Nothing else changed, just the arrow material.
Been shooting alum for 10 years now and recently got a bit nostalgic and made a dozen cedars. They absolutely are not as consistent, I don't care what anyone says. My groups are bigger and I spend more time behind the target scratching in the leaves.
I have no experience with carbon and have no desire to try them. I will play with wood and kill stuff with aluminum.
Get the video "The Legendary Hunts of Ben Pearson" (think I still have the contact info. for Ben Jr. Check out the Wilhelm brothers shooting wood arrows.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np8u69YfSA8
Good wood shafts are harder to get, takes more work to make them into arrows, but they can be shot very accurately.
I'm no pro, but I've shot better scores at tournaments with wood arrows than a lot of others using aluminum or carbon.
FWIW, I shoot all three. For convenience, aluminum and carbon win hands-down. For accuracy...I can't tell a difference.
Chad
I'm sure a lot of people will disagree, but I find that wooden arrows are easier to tune than carbon, more forgiving and a heck of a lot quieter. You MUST start with good, matched shafting (like Surewood and Wapiti) and follow certain basic "rules" when building them. You will also have to retune your bow. (I used to have carbon, aluminum and wooden arrows. Guess which one shot the best? The one that my bow was tuned for.) I can't tell any difference in accuracy out to 20-25 yards. Past that its more me than arrow material.
Ignore the naysayers. Wood arrows have been used for thousands of years and still do their job very well for those who prefer to stay with the traditional side of archery.
While true that an almost cultish fascination with precision shooting and high-tech materials has developed in archery at all levels, a well-made and matched set of wood arrows will do anything normal archers want or need them to do without compromising the basic premise that traditional archery is known for...respect for simple materials, methods and applications. Wood arrows and bows led the way in archery well before metal and plastic ever existed, and while some still honor that fact and the basic premise behind it others will take liberties to disparage it as a way to embellish their own chosen preferences. For many it seems, winning ribbons is the new traditional and all is fair in the pursuit of perfection.
Wood is a fine choice. Use whatever you prefer for gear, enjoy yourself and pay no heed to those who over-embrace technology and in doing so give 'the shaft' to the simple stick and string side of archery. That dog just don't hunt.
I have not done any scientific testing, but I know I shoot my FMJ's more accurately that I can my woods. YMMV
Bisch
See below. Somehow double posted while trying to edit.
I shoot wood, carbon and aluminum.......makes no difference in my results on a target or 3/D course. :thumbsup:
QuoteOriginally posted by Orion:
There's a fair amount of misinformation in that article. He starts out by shooting arrows mismatched in spine to his bow and complains about poor arrow flight. What does he expect? He doesn't know his bow weight nor the spine of the arrows he 's shooting. Not a basis on which to argue that no two arrows will shoot alike.)
Regardless, if he can only get three good arrows out of a dozen shafts, that means he's started with some mismatched shafts to begin with or screwed them up in the building process.
It's not difficult to build well matched wood arrows that will shoot together, but to do so, they need to be the same spine, weight, length, and have have consistent good grain, and have straight nock and point taper grinds, and the nocks and points must be put on absolutely straight.
Of course, it's easier to achieve all these things with aluminum and carbon shafts and plug in components, but there are very few folks who can shoot the difference between a set of well made woodies and other shaft materials.
Keep in mind, too, that he's shooting a self bow. Though the bow itself is capable of consistent results, a lot of shooters aren't capable of getting consistent results with them.
I shoot wood, aluminum, and fiberglass. Aluminum is easiest and straight until they bend, then they are repurposed. Fiberglass is tough, heavy, and a little harder to deal with, not as consistent as aluminum. Wood arrows require more attention, but are better for shooting off of not-to-center bows because they can maintain weight while shooting a lighter spine. I will probably be shooting more wood now than before because the aluminum options for my bows are not real good, and my fiberglass are of limited supply and I can't get more with a lighter spine.
Great info. Orion. I didn't read the article...but it appears the problems were built in before the author even started.
For the record, I don't shoot wood arrows for the nostalgia. The only reason I started shooting them was, when I competed, they were required at most tournaments to shoot in the longbow and selfbow classes. There was a strong learning curve, especially building my own, but I soon found out they could be shot as accurately (by me) as any other arrow as long as I did my part.
I do like the fact that I can get a reasonably heavy arrow (8-9+ gpp) without having to put a spear point on the end of my arrow.
Oh, but the sweet smell of cedar.
Fake News
If what Orion says is true then this was a "experiment" meant to fail.
Gordon Jabben I thought I have seen pictures of you with several dead squirrels. How much better do you need to shoot?
Shoot what gives you confindence and joy
Ah, a friendly discussion of an old topic. I like making and shooting wood arrows as well as the next guy but finding matched shafts is a witch hunt unto itself. I just happen to have acquired some dozens from an estate sale of an arrow maker in CA. Unfortunately maybe only six are exactly the same.
I wanted to make some woods like the Bear offering in 1962. I used the calculator and found I needed 60# spine for my bow. I made up 8 as that is all I have exactly 60# spine. They are a little light for huntingIMO but they fly as well as the carbons I have for that bow. I shoot out to 40 yards or so and except for my miscalculation of the range both carbon and wood ended up next to each other. Good enough proof for me.
Wood arrows, if well made, will generally shoot tighter than most any of us can hold. I wonder if anybody told Howard Hill how innately inaccurate his wooden arrows were.
I have found woodies to be totally adequate for my shooting, and I have found that they are easier for me to tune.
Well, I do know that I'm not nearly as good of a shot on those squirrels as you are with your wooden arrows! Lol
I don't shoot wooden arrows nearly as well past 20 yards. However I have found that if I only shoot one wooden arrow it will fly with incredible consistency.
I think if you put a dozen matched Cedar arrows through a shooting machine and then a dozen full metal jacket (or other high quality shafts) through the same machine the man-made arrows would be more accurate. It might take 30 or 40 yards for the difference to be very noticeable but I think it would be there and the difference between man-made and wouldn't components would be exponential as the range increased.
Inside hunting distance I don't think it matters much if you know how to work arrows.
Many people do not consider their own inconsistencies. How one is set up makes no difference if that set up does not have some tolerances in it to forgive or comply with the shooters inconsistencies. I have seen far more Hill style shooters struggle with carbon than with wood. It is not the fault of the arrow when someone has a short draw when shooting out of a tree stand or from an odd position, but if that person has set up the tuning so that a softer shot greatly affects the arrow flight, than the tuning was not accurate enough to fit the shooter. I have seen bad wood shafts, from years of experience, I know how to order good shafts for the intended shooter and bow. When I make someone a dozen arrows, I almost always have to work with the shooter to get them fixed before I can decide on what to do with the arrows. For bows that are not center shot, I find that wood arrows can be much easier to deal with considering my parameters. My first parameter is that no arrow should ever be more than one inch longer bop than the draw length. If I could hunt with net length broadhead wood arrows I would, the head touching my index finger is as close as I can get and makes a marvelous draw check device as well. That is not so easy with carbon and still have an arrow that will forgive an accidental softer release. We are not operating push button shooting machines and we not shooting machines ourselves either.
QuoteOriginally posted by Sam McMichael:
Wood arrows, if well made, will generally shoot tighter than most any of us can hold. I wonder if anybody told Howard Hill how innately inaccurate his wooden arrows were.
I have found woodies to be totally adequate for my shooting, and I have found that they are easier for me to tune.
X2 :thumbsup:
Gordon, I've now shot woods of various types, aluminum, and carbons. I have deduced that they all hit what you are looking at if you do your part. I think carbon for me on the target butt holds a smidgen tighter but its not much. I'm happy with wood or other materials equally. Honestly I dont personally think you'd gain enough by switching. The one big difference I note, is a good well built carbon takes a lot of mean punishment to break.
No, I don't want to switch from wood. I have shot them for so many years. The article in the magazine made me wonder how much accuracy I have been giving up by shooting wood and was thinking about getting a set of carbons just for an accuracy test against my wood arrows and wondered what other shooters opinions would be.
I have one active set of carbon arrows. They fly out of just of my bows. The odd part is that I have Surewwods that fly perfect out of four of my bows including that one. When I do things exactly right, the tapered carbons are perfect. If I draw longer and release harder the carbon gets bad about it, if I have a softer release and shorter draw by a half inch or so the carbon arrow acts stiff. I tried to give them to a friend that had a past center recurve, that was about 62 pounds at his draw, they flew good for him with lighter points, but they were too short.
Gordon, you aint missing anything!
QuoteOriginally posted by Gordon Jabben:
No, I don't want to switch from wood. I have shot them for so many years. The article in the magazine made me wonder how much accuracy I have been giving up by shooting wood and was thinking about getting a set of carbons just for an accuracy test against my wood arrows and wondered what other shooters opinions would be.
I don't see any reason for you to switch, if you like wood arrows. You have no doubt hunted with them and know your effective range. Within your effective range, wood arrows would be as lethal as carbons. If you want to expand your effective range, changing arrows would be one of a list of things to consider. In competitions, I only shoot wood arrows if the competition requires wood arrows, and then everyone has the same limitation. However, the accuracy difference between wood and carbon is close enough that even in competitions where you can shoot any arrow you want, sometimes the guy shooting wood arrows will win just because he is a better shot.
The bottom line is, carbon shafts are straighter, more consistently matched, lighter, and more durable than wood shafts, so in my opinion they are better. But they aren't THAT much better that you should switch, if you love shooting wood arrows.
I've made, shot, lost or broken a thousand + wooden shafts (cedar)in my life. I'm much more particular with them these days than I was "back when". 30 years ago I'd order a hundred at a whack that were spined and supposedly weighed... maybe they were close and maybe they weren't.
I do know that my buddies and I put a lot more effort into knowing our equipment in those days since we didn't own either a scale or spine tester. We learned by shooting them and came to know their personalities by doing that. We were too poor to be able to discard any but the most weird flying of the lot.
I could go on and on about the great long shots we made with those arrows. It wasn't just luck either.
Today we have the benefit of being able to procure the most closely matched shafts ever and be able to purchase more that are very closely matched to previous sets. We also have learned the value of owning a simple scale and spine tester just because you can never be too careful.
I shoot with confidence that every arrow I shoot will follow the one before to it's target as closely as I'm able to shoot.
My main concern with wooden shafts is the possibility of warpage and even that is unlikely with premium shafts.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/charlie/FirstAntelope.jpg)
My first antelope taken at 55 yds. Cedar shaft and Zwickey Delta. Shot was taken from the hay stack in the background.
Nice picture Charlie and what a great shot. You have a talent for taking good hunting pictures and I always enjoy them. I have kept a hunting log since I started hunting with a longbow but I regret I haven't taken many pictures of my hunting friends, game, or camp scenery.
It's jut my opinion, but I say a guy has to be one hell of a shot to say that he can shoot better than a well made, matched dozen of wood arrows. Wood arrows certainly shoot better than I shoot them.
I've been making and shooting wood arrows(mainly cedar) for a long time. I do have some aluminums, but haven't shot them in years. Don't shoot carbons. A big part of my enjoyment of shooting a longbow is the time spent making a beautiful and well matched set of cedars. They will shoot with any arrows.
I think the archers ability is a factor also. While I'm not a great shot, I am above the pack at most 3d shoots. And my wood arrows out shoot all my friends with their carbons. a good wood arrow will shoot with the best of them.
Jsweka, my shooting has really went downhill the last couple of years and I think I just want to blame the arrows instead of myself. I doubt that carbon arrows would help. :knothead:
I got turned on to surewood Doug fir a couple years ago. I have since made many arrows for myself and others spine and weight matched with insanely high tolerances. I have been so impressed. And like someone else mentioned. I don't have to figure out ways to add weight for an elk arrow. As far as accuracy is concerned, They shoot as well as carbon in my opinion.
Gordon... good photos come from taking lots of them. Even the top pro's can more photos than they keep.
You just have to make yourself take the time to take them... and it's a lot cheaper with today's digital cameras. :thumbsup:
I heard that compound bows are more accurate that traditional bows too! My point is not to start fight but to point out that it all comes down to personal preference and what makes you happy.
If I want tighter groups there are a few ways to skin that cat. More modern equipment is one, practice is another. There is no doubt in my mind there are plenty of wood arrow shooters that have tighter groups than I would have with carbon.
Personally, for me one inch groups is not my goal right now. I measure my traditional archery experience in smiles. An occasional stray arrow due to a bend in my wood shaft just makes me smile.
Tight groups can get expensive and time consuming. I have 2 dozen aluminum arrows that need repair from trying to shoot too many arrows into too small of a pile. If I make six net length wood arrows, I try to keep it at six, that means i am shooting each arrow at a different spot. The easiest thing there is to hit on a target is a brand new wood arrow a they quite often end up with more than just a cracked nock.