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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: longbow fanatic 1 on May 17, 2017, 04:46:00 PM

Title: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: longbow fanatic 1 on May 17, 2017, 04:46:00 PM
First the love part: I love the looks, the feel of the grip and the beauty of the Grayling green lams against the chestnut riser wood.

The hate part: for whatever reason, my arrows impact stuff (left, RH shooter) no matter what I do. I've shot wood arrows with a couple different spine stiffnesses and varying tip weights, aluminum arrows and carbon arrows. Various brace height adjustments... Always left!      :banghead:  

Does anyone else have these issues with Bear bows? I've got a buddy who has the same issue with his Bear bow. I'd prefer to remain focused on arrow & tip combinations that have worked for you. Or if you have the same issues, what did you do to correct it? Let's take form issues out of the equation. Don't get me wrong, my form is not perfect. I'd just like this discussion to focus on the above listed non-form causes.

Here are the specs on my bow: RH, 1965 Kodiak 47# with a Dacron string.
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: J. Holden on May 17, 2017, 04:59:00 PM
I would think a spined wood arrow at 40-45 with a 125+ grain tip would do the trick.  Have you tried that combo?  Also have you tried pushing the trike plate out?  Sometimes slipping a toothpick behind the strike plate can help.

I've also heard of shooters putting one of those feather rests on their Bear bows and that seems to be the ticket.

-Jeremy   :coffee:
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: longbow fanatic 1 on May 17, 2017, 05:06:00 PM
Thanks JH! I have not tried shafts that light. Maybe that's the trick. I like longer shafts and I shoot a fixed crawl. I was shooting 60-65 Fir shafts cut to  30.5" with up to 190 gr tips. Also shot 55-60 Fir shafts with 125-190 gr tips. Also shot GT 35-55 shafts cut to 30.5" various tips as well as  32" 2016 alums. All with the same results.
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: Fun4all on May 17, 2017, 05:07:00 PM
Maybe soften the strike plate with moleskin or velcro.  While it will push you arrow out is works like a cushioned plunger and will move the arrow to the right.
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: longbow fanatic 1 on May 17, 2017, 05:15:00 PM
Thanks, Fun!
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: last arrow on May 17, 2017, 05:23:00 PM
My 1966 kodiak, which only differs from the 65 in glass color and my bear takedown are the 2 most consistent and accurate bows I have ever owned, and I have owned quite a few.  I have found that I need to tune on the weak side of perfect by using 25 grains more head weight than what bare shafts perfectly for this to happen.

That being said, I recommend a skinny shaft, I use axis FMJ's with both bows.  I also use a  Tenring String (Fury material) on both.  Also check the tiller and see if it still seams reasonable.  Being an older bow it may be developing an issue.
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: longbow fanatic 1 on May 17, 2017, 05:27:00 PM
Thanks, Last!
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: cacciatore on May 17, 2017, 05:40:00 PM
All my Kodiak shoot as a charm, if you have arrow problems and you can't fix them try to check if the tips are straight.
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: crazynate on May 17, 2017, 05:50:00 PM
All my kodiaks and bear bows shoot well with either 49-45# spine or 50-55# both with 125 tip. I have many vintage bears and can usually make either spine work for a particular bow.  Shoot normal split finger though. I have no experience with fixed crawl
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: longbow fanatic 1 on May 17, 2017, 05:54:00 PM
Thanks Caccia  & Crazy
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: Pointer on May 17, 2017, 07:24:00 PM
My '65 Kodiak is 47@28" but I'm drawing it to 30". Scales 53 at my draw and I use a GT 400 with a 50 grain brass insert and 125 up front usually in a Magnus Stinger or an original Razorhead with an adapter.
I get great flight but I also played around with the strike plate some. I like to go with the thinnest I can find and then build out a bit if needed with double sided tape.
Good Luck!
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: Tedd on May 17, 2017, 07:32:00 PM
Don't know anything about the left right. ff you shoot only that bow a while you'll start hitting where you want. It probably dines't match other bows in your stable.
But I know how you feel. I had a really nice 66 kodiak but it stacked immediately after 28". I draw close to 30". It was pretty much un shootable for me. Especially since it was 60lb@28. It felt like 80lb at my draw. I tried to sell it but no takers. I broke it doing something really stupid that I won't admit to on here.
Tedd
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: The Whittler on May 17, 2017, 08:48:00 PM
Have you tried raising your brace hight.
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: longbow fanatic 1 on May 17, 2017, 09:01:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by The Whittler:
Have you tried raising your brace hight.
Yes, I have.
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: Woodpuppy on May 17, 2017, 10:34:00 PM
I know you didn't want to focus on form, but I'm going to share my experience with the same recent issue. I just got back into archery in earnest this past March after a >5 year hiatus. I was consistently hitting left of my poa with both a recurve and a longbow. Both bows were new to me, and I was also working with carbons for the first time as they are apparently more prevalent now. So I was very frustrated trying to find an arrow that would work with both bows and diagnose why I kept hitting left. One night I read about using a "deep hook" on this forum, and realized I was doing it wrong. I'd always shot off the pads of my fingers. With a deeper hook, my groups snapped to center. And it's completely repeatable, if I shoot off my finger tips again my arrows move left. Deeper hook, back to center. I did find that a GT Traditional 400 works for both bows, the recurve likes a 125gr point and the longbow needs 175gr.

30.75" draw
Recurve 45lbs @ 30"
Longbow 38lbs @ 28"

Good luck, I hope you get it solved!
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: hunting badger on May 18, 2017, 12:55:00 AM
I used to shoot every bow I had to the left, it was very frustrating, then I read somewhere I might her torqueing the bow. I started concentrating on a more relaxed grip and doing that solved my problem.
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: hunting badger on May 18, 2017, 12:56:00 AM
I used to shoot every bow I had to the left, it was very frustrating, then I read somewhere I might her torqueing the bow. I started concentrating on a more relaxed grip and doing that solved my problem.
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: longbow fanatic 1 on May 18, 2017, 06:49:00 AM
Thanks, guys. The reason I didn't want to focus on form is that I shoot nearly every day with my string walking ILF bow, my hunting ILF bow or my longbow. I'm not the greatest shot in the world, but I have the basics down as far as form is concerned. I.can shoot my other bows well without the issues I have with the Kodiak. That said, I really think it's an arrow spine selection issue.
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: Trumpkin the Dwarf on May 18, 2017, 07:52:00 AM
Hey Longbow. It may not be form exactly, but the grip is probably pretty different than the rest of your bows (ILF). Could it be that your bow hand is torquing the string out a bit on release, just due to the different grip shape?
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: longbow fanatic 1 on May 18, 2017, 08:14:00 AM
Trumpkin, it's possible. I shoot with either a finger sling and my bow hand fingers tucked next to the grip or the "Okay" style bow hand fingers (index finger touching tip of thumb). My longbow grip is vastly different than most my other bows and I shoot that one fine. I'm very conscious of bow torque when I shoot, so I'd be surprised if that were the consistent problem with this bow. Hey, I'm not perfect, so it's possible.
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: on May 18, 2017, 10:38:00 AM
Dennis, I just sent you a Powerpoint doc.  Please give me a call when you have a chance to view it.

This is also good input:  
QuoteOriginally posted by Trumpkin the Dwarf:
Hey Longbow. It may not be form exactly, but the grip is probably pretty different than the rest of your bows (ILF). Could it be that your bow hand is torquing the string out a bit on release, just due to the different grip shape?
For me, the grips on those older bows tend to be challenging.
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: Bud B. on May 18, 2017, 11:25:00 AM
What is your draw length? I never saw that mentioned or either I missed it.
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: Bud B. on May 18, 2017, 12:23:00 PM
Here is one of my 65s.

After reading your comments I got this one which is 45@28. I draw to 27. I am lefty. I shot 30.5" bop 3555s with 175gr points, factory inserts. Three 5" shields. Factory shelf plate and rug. Brace is right at 8". 14 strand flemish B55 with Two Tracks's small scallops. GT factory nock fit is good to the serving, a light snap when the arrow is nocked. I draw to right at 27, but, I am a pull-thru shooter or reluctantly admit, a snap shooter. This is at 15 yards. The arrow impact is about 2"ish left of my point of aim. I am guessing 145gr points on these arrows would do this bow well. My arrow flight with this arrow/point weight is excellent. If I were to go hunting with this, I would build the strikepkate out a hair with the 175s or aim just right of where I wanted to hit and limit myself to a 15 yard or under shot.

The 65s are of the blocky era of Kodiak grips, but it did not cause me any problems. I gripped it with all fingers, not the "OK" sign grip. I much prefer the 70s grips on SKs.

As a lefty my arrows are left (weak), so as a righty yours should be capable of hitting right of your current setup (make them weaker). If everything you're trying isn't working, then you may have to consider it is possibly attributed to form - with that bow. Some bows I just can't shoot well, like my 62 Kodiak Magnum. That grip and my hand just do not get along. I love the bow, but it doesn't like my style of shooting.

Retirement is great when you can read a post and go outside to try something and then report back right away on a Thursday afternoon.....  :)

 (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f94/Equismith/th_20170518_114538.jpg) (http://s45.photobucket.com/user/Equismith/media/20170518_114538.jpg.html)
 (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f94/Equismith/th_20170518_114514.jpg) (http://s45.photobucket.com/user/Equismith/media/20170518_114514.jpg.html)   (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f94/Equismith/th_20170518_114424.jpg) (http://s45.photobucket.com/user/Equismith/media/20170518_114424.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: longbow fanatic 1 on May 18, 2017, 02:22:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Bud B.:
What is your draw length? I never saw that mentioned or either I missed it.
I draw 28.5" Thanks to everyone for your tips and advice. I'm going to work on this and see what I can do to correct this.
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: J. Holden on May 19, 2017, 08:11:00 PM
Any luck on getting back on target?  Pun intended too.

-Jeremy  :coffee:
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: ThePushArchery on May 20, 2017, 12:34:00 AM
Longbow, how are your fletched and bareshafts impacting in relation to each other? Are bareshafts impacting left of fletched or are they grouping together, only left of intended target?

If the latter, simply adjust your string blur further toward the arrow. If string blur is just outside the riser (right side) at full draw, bring it to the middle of the riser.

I have a few bows that tune perfectly, but don't shoot down the middle as compared to my go to bows. After about 30 arrows consiously paying attention to the new string blur location, it becomes natural.
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: ThePushArchery on May 20, 2017, 12:38:00 AM
And I've seen your form videos over in the shooters forum. It ain't your form  ;)
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: longbow fanatic 1 on May 20, 2017, 06:43:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by cpnhgnlngct:
Longbow, how are your fletched and bareshafts impacting in relation to each other? Are bareshafts impacting left of fletched or are they grouping together, only left of intended target?

If the latter, simply adjust your string blur further toward the arrow. If string blur is just outside the riser (right side) at full draw, bring it to the middle of the riser.

I have a few bows that tune perfectly, but don't shoot down the middle as compared to my go to bows. After about 30 arrows consiously paying attention to the new string blur location, it becomes natural.
Great idea, Matt. Thanks for the tips. I'll give it a try!
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: longbow fanatic 1 on May 20, 2017, 06:46:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by J. Holden:
Any luck on getting back on target?  Pun intended too.

-Jeremy   :coffee:  
I had to order a new bow string, so I haven't made any of the corrections that have been suggested by the fine members on this site.
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: longbow fanatic 1 on May 20, 2017, 06:47:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by cpnhgnlngct:
And I've seen your form videos over in the shooters forum. It ain't your form   ;)  
Thanks, brother. I appreciate your compliment!
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: SlowBowinMO on May 22, 2017, 05:22:00 PM
All of my older Bears bare shaft and shoot beautifully with shafts that you would think way too weak.  I think the bow may be telling you something....
Title: Re: Love/hate relationship with my 1965 Kodiak
Post by: longbow fanatic 1 on May 22, 2017, 06:14:00 PM
Braveheart,

I'll  bite. What wood shafts would you begin tuning with for a '65 Kodiak 45@28 and I draw 28.5"?