No dogs allowed at the Classic unless it is kept in camp on a lead, and it is not a barker. No dogs in the vending /concession/range or work shop areas. Sorry and hope you understand. Had lots of trouble with dogs and crowds over the years so best to not have them around.
Pappy
I agree. When you have dog problems just look at the owners. Crowds and dogs don't mix no matter what anyone says. Hope it works out.
There are lots of great dogs and great dog owners, but it only takes one or two to ruin it for the rest. I was at a shoot earlier this year and saw someone walking a BIG dog...and it left a BIG "land mine" right in a high traffic area. Owner looked at it and walked on. If I'd been close enough I would have said something. A little common courtesy goes a long way, but unfortunately it's not too common with some folks. Good call Pappy.
Pappy, that's a sensible approach. Unfortunate but necessary given past negative experiences.
99% of the people who plan to attend your great event just breathed a sigh of relief Pappy.
Thanks for the support guys. Eric you need to try and make it back someday. Love to have ya and see you again.
Pappy
TTT
Pappy, my daughter is epileptic (has seizures) and has a therapy dog (chihauhau) who stays on a leash, never barks, and is crate trained for camp. Would this be okay?
Red Arrow, aka Ron
As long as it stays in Camp Ron.
Pappy
Ok. Thanks. I got it wrong in my previous post though. Lilly, the dog, is a service dog, not a therapy dog. But she will be fine staying in camp.
No problem Ron, we will work it out with you and her, we will do what we need to do for her best interest.
Pappy
Back up
Back up
Just in case somebody didn't see this.
TTT
Thanks Pat.
Pappy
great idea
Great Idea
Back up
People, crews, can run their camps however they want, but I think its worth pointing out I doubt you could find a Indian encampment without loose dogs running around.
It takes all kinds, but mostly dog problems come from dog owners who probably should not have dogs which gets into a bigger issue of parents who should probably not have kids, lol.
It seems the easy answer if you do not have a dog is to ban all dogs. Then what to do with dogs who are actually part of the archery hunting experience like a blood trail dog? Lets say I wanted to bring a trained tracking dog and show off how good it would track a blood trail as a vender?
Then you have a legal issue concerning Federal Law. Did you know there is no such thing as a Federal License for a "Service Dog" or that you cannot ask a person what their disability is if they claim to have a service dog? Yes, i know the law on such things but suggest that if you do confront anyone for bringing and or having a dog, you dig pretty deep into what is and is not a service dog and the two questions you can legally ask and the half a dozen or so reasons you can even ask someone with a service dog to leave without opening up a court case.
No worries, just want to make sure you guys have some of the extra info about service dogs and questions that may come up with your plan,
QuoteOriginally posted by Red Arrow:
Ok. Thanks. I got it wrong in my previous post though. Lilly, the dog, is a service dog, not a therapy dog. But she will be fine staying in camp.
Ron, as you say the dog is a service dog, What is it trained to do as its service?
What is the difference between a "Therapy Dog" and a "Service Dog" ?
Thanks for the info Bryan. Appreciate you concern. If it is a service dog from all I have read it will have a card or a vest that will confirm that. It that case we will work it out with the owner, but just to say that without proof won't fly. Heck my dogs are therapy for me. :)I am sure you are right about Indian camps and when times got tough the killed them and ate them, this is not an Indian encampment. ;)
Pappy
If it's my property it's my rules. Stick to your guns Pappy and good luck with your shoot and the dog problems.
QuoteIt seems the easy answer if you do not have a dog is to ban all dogs.
Mark (Pappy) actually has dogs that are extremely good natured and people friendly...and he puts them in a pen for the Classic. He's not asking anyone to do something he's not doing himself, and he owns the place.
QuoteOriginally posted by pappy:
Thanks for the info Bryan. Appreciate you concern. If it is a service dog from all I have read it will have a card or a vest that will confirm that. It that case we will work it out with the owner, but just to say that without proof won't fly. Heck my dogs are therapy for me. :)I am sure you are right about Indian camps and when times got tough the killed them and ate them, this is not an Indian encampment. ;)
Pappy
Pappy, I trained a service dog recently, so spent a lot of time taking it to grocery stores and restaurants, other public places. Most of the dogs you see out in public are fake service dogs, that is, they are not trained to do a specific task according to the American Disability Act ADA and that is the federal controlling organization concerning service dogs.. The Feds do not have any registry for service dogs but there are many fake credentials available for 29.95 around the internet and it seems to be big money. However, no service dog is required to have any credential, badge, vest, or anything.
Basically, the entire "Service Dog" thing is a legal landmine for business and property owners. places like grocery stores are very scared to open any legal case so they simply ask if a dog is a service dog, even when they are told lies and they know it, they simply ignore it as long as the dog owner claims it is a legal service dog.
Here is a link to the actual ADA page on the subject.
https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html
One spring before breakup, A trapper came walking out of the Yukon Charley into Circle City. A couple Indians noticed he was now wearing his sled dogs, a bad winter. The story goes he felt so bad about eating good sled dogs he made a Parky and gear out of them so he could keep them close, after all, they were good dogs, saved his life, and deserved proper doings,
Thanks Bryan for the info. Hope I don't run into any problems but if I do I will handle it cautiously.
Pappy
TTT
If any trad gang member goes to classic with their dogs and claim they didn't know. They should be first in line for a seeing eye dog! By the way I am in total agreement with you. We need to get back to a time where people come before animals.
Thanks Craig, I got a good laugh out of that and I really needed one this morning. See yall in a week.
Pappy
TTT
Sorry Pappy, I didn't mean to start any issues here. My daughter is epileptic with seizures caused by tubersclerosis. Her dog is trained to react if she senses a seizure coming as an early warning. Lilly can stay in camp while we are looking around and participating in activities though.
Btw: Bryan is totally correct about the scammers out there buying the "service" dog kits online so they can take their pets into stores, restaurants, etc. Such vests are not required but are financially lucrative on the internet.
The difference between a service dog and a therapy dog is that a service dog provides a necessary service (seeing eye dog, pulling a wheelchair, early detection of medical issues, etc.) While a therapy dog provides emotional support for people in hospitals, elderly care facilities, etc.
Y'all must have had some bad bad dogs to say no dogs period . Ron sry to hear your little girls service dog has to stay in camp
Mark, with as many people as show up(500-600 shooters and families) at the Classic, with all the kids running around and with all the venders and campers there it only takes one bad situation to mess up a good thing. Pappy and the members at Twin Oaks are all dog lovers but in this situation they thought it best to say no dogs. This will be the 20th year for the Tennessee Classic so they have plenty of experience and din't come by this new rule lightly.
Spot on Pat.
Pappy didn't say "no dogs, period". He also didn't say a service dog had to stay in camp. It's on page 1.
Not cool to attribute things to someone that they never said.
The TN Classic is probably the smoothest running tournament I've ever been too, especially considering the size of it. Dogs aren't the problem there. People who have no respect or consideration for other people or other people's property are the problem. Only takes a few, i.e. one person letting their big 'ol dog take a big 'ol dump in a vendor tent and then walking off like nothing happened. Thank people like that for the new rule having to be instated.
I was in that tent when the big lab did his deed and the owner walked off like nothing happened.
I think it was the Pine Hollow Longbow tent but can't be sure as it was a few years ago, it was a stinking mess.
That's a different instance than the one I was thinking of, but further proof that action had to be taken.
Thankfully the Classic is held on private property where rules can be set as needed. I was at a shoot earlier this year at a park where a guy let his big dog take a big dump right on a main path between the vendors and sign-up. Walked on like nothing happened.
TTT
Not trying to stir the pot,but I just don't see the obsession people have with carrying their pets EVERYWHERE they go. I love dogs, have owned 17 at one time ( hounds) ,I don't like dogs at the beach and most of all I don't like dog shyte on me shoes! This rant totally excludes people with service dogs.
I don't have anything against dogs, but there are some places that they just don't belong. I work at a golf course in the summer and it is amazing how many people will try and sneak their dogs out onto the course with them. It just doesn't make sense.
Hopefully the event will go smoothly for you guys.
I like dogs, don't love them. I have one that is a part of my family. I don't love YOUR dogs. Leave them at home where they're not stressed out by all the crowds and strange people.
While it might not be allowed to ask about a service dog, I didn't see anything to prohibit me from asking about your disability if it isn't apparent.
Back up!
I won't be here to do this again. Leaving early tomorrow morning. Safe travels everyone.
Excuse me but the whole "service" dog/cat/rat/lizard/duck/pot bellied pig/ etc. thing has gotten nuts in this country.
My friend owns a nice motel, no pets, but people come with a "service animal" and he is supposed to let them stay and stink up the room because of the ADA. or get sued?
What B.S.
QuoteOriginally posted by dnovo:
I like dogs, don't love them. I have one that is a part of my family. I don't love YOUR dogs. Leave them at home where they're not stressed out by all the crowds and strange people.
While it might not be allowed to ask about a service dog, I didn't see anything to prohibit me from asking about your disability if it isn't apparent.
The two legal questions a property manager or security can ask are about the dog. No way you can ask anyone what their disabilty is and not subject a business or operation to a legal case.
Its such a tricky deal, most restaurants will not bother even asking people anything beyond, "is that a service dog?" and anything besides "no" is good enough to keep the dog inside. Anyone that complains about a dog in a restaurant, grocery store, movie theatre, whatever is no concern because there is no liability within the law concerning their interest as they are not disabled with special legal rights or privilege.
QuoteOriginally posted by BAK:
Excuse me but the whole "service" dog/cat/rat/lizard/duck/pot bellied pig/ etc. thing has gotten nuts in this country.
My friend owns a nice motel, no pets, but people come with a "service animal" and he is supposed to let them stay and stink up the room because of the ADA. or get sued?
What B.S.
Actually you can legally have a miniature horse as a service animal. Some "nice" people showed up at a county fair claiming their monkeys were service monkeys,,,, and got kicked out, lol.